Texas Cop Who Fatally Shot Man After Entering Wrong Apartment Identified

You're entitled to your opinion on my take but it's rooted in historical fact, not opinion. You are correct that dealing with anger is universal but the Judeo-Christian overtones came through very strongly when he was on the stand. He could have done all of that at home, away from cameras, and achieved the same effect. Performing it publically was done for a reason.....but like I said, he's likely too young to understand why he did what he did.

Here's another controversial take for you:

The version of Christianity given to Afro-descendants in the Western Hemisphere is essentially worthless. Everything of value our ancestors had was either stripped from them or had to be hidden. Yet Christianity was always allowed and even forced upon them. Why? It encouraged them to be docile. For all the praying and groveling black people have done since we've been on this side of the world, it didn't get us very much....but I digress.

 

Well, I will repeat that I don’t consider his forgiveness to be a consequence of his Christianity, and add that I also don’t consider it to be tied to his race. So I disagree twice over with your take.

You are also implying that what he was doing was completely self-serving, and ignoring the intended effect on the person who killed his brother. He wanted to alleviate some of the pain she’s feeling. That takes a big person. I’m neither black or Christian, and I hope I would be big enough to do something like that if I was put in that position. It’s not about wanting to show off to the cameras.

 

But if forgiveness provide you healing, why do you not want to heal? Whatever may lead you to do such an action, if the end result is of your healing, why would you want to pass up on that?

 

I’m not implying anything. I already stated in post #794 why this behavior exists in the west black Christian community. As you have admitted, you are not a member of our community so I think it’s reasonable to assume you don’t know our history. I’ve spent over a decade studying this history.....I think my take has far more historical evidence behind it than yours. You may not like it but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

 

I don’t know if a single case of that type of behavior leading to true healing. My family history is rife with stories, and reactions, similar to this. It is a learned self defense mechanism by black people to present themselves as non-threatening in order to avoid further attacks.

 

Sure, you understand that history far better than I do. But it does not follow that his actions are due to his ethnic/cultural background, as opposed to him simply being a good person. I am not convinced that a non-black, non-Christian person would not have been just as likely to publicly console her after her sentencing.

 

Yes, it absolutely speaks to his cultural background. This has nothing to do with being a “good” or “bad” person. It is simply a learned survival mechanism. Had he not done this he wouldn’t have been a “bad” person.
Black people on this side of the world have literally been taught, both explicitly and implicitly, to react this way to transgressions by white parties.

 

Fascinating thread. I loved the grace shown in the courtroom, but maybe it was comforting to me as a white dude, down somewhere on my brainstem.

I’m just saying I think it’s great to celebrate grace, wherever we can find it in this world, but I can hear and honor a take like @amaru is sharing. Haven’t walked in his shoes.

 

Oh. So if the officer was non-white, he wouldn’t have done this?

 

That was a truly amazing scene. It reminded me of things that happened during the South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission meetings. In how cynical and jaded we are in this society we often forget though that there are people who truly do live up to values that most of would probably find impossible to do. For as much as people might mouth the words "turn the other cheek" how often do people actually do that especially in a situation where a member of your family was killed.

All of that though this is an example though of why justice is in the hands of the state or from a Christian perspective in the hands of God. While Botham's brother can forgive her she still did wrong and it is in the interest of the state to see that Justice is met. This is usually for the flip side where the family might want to exact revenge on the perpetrator and the perpetrator's family. The state and the law are their so that the victim's family doesn't take justice into their hands. In a case like this though where there could have been repercussions if Guyger had just been let go because the brother of the victim forgave here it is still the state's responsibility to see Justice.

 

Nevermind. lol

 

I'm not black but I've heard this theory before that Christianity was taught to African slaves not just because Christianity is a proselytizing religion but that the emphasis on forgiveness, meekness and idea that good behavior in this world leads to prosperity in the next was a control mechanism. Also teaching Christianity helped to wipe out previous religious and cultural traditions that they had. The same argument has been brought up regarding conversions of indigenous people in the Americas and Australia.

I don't think we can ever know what is truly in Brandt Jean's heart to make the conclusion whether his actions were part of some sort of conditioning, fear or were a completely personal and genuine. Even accepting that his actions were truly because of religious background I don't think that demeans them. I do think the historical background of forced Christianity on African Slaves is an important issue but at the same time this is a unique situation and this is also 2019. I don't think many would've criticized or threatened Brandt Jean if he had reacted angrily, or not at all, towards Guyger. As I said in my earlier post a lot of people mouth the words "turn the other cheek" but few Christians actually act on that.

 

I think if it's an act out of self defense or fear, it's not true forgiveness and thus there would likely not be "benefits" from it. True forgiveness, according to both religious teachings (all major world religion from East to West) and psychology, is beneficial to the individual.

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2017/01/ce-corner

 

Now this is BS.

 

And Goines is being charged with murder and if found guilty he will probably get life

 

...she's behaved...I guess the word I'll use is unconventionally...for the duration of this trail.

First, she introduces the "castle doctrine" to the jury as a factor they should consider in their deliberations. How there could have even been a need to try to invoke that statute after what was already known and spoken of about this case, was beyond reasonable to me...

She routinely broke protocol with how she addressed the defendant. Personally, by name, as opposed to "defendant" or "the defendant" on several occasions, including the reading of the verdict...

She was visibly annoyed with the verdict the jury returned with, and seemed almost distressed with the proceedings afterwards...as if she somehow had lost this case or had some personal stake in the outcome...

...hunh.

I could go down my usual road with all this (and I am sorely tempted), but @amaru already said much of what I thought, at least regarding how the young mister Jean behaved with his moments in court.

What I will say is that the young mister Jean's extension of compassion to this woman was his choice and his right. In that particular moment and circumstance, I can only hope I have anything like that much compassion for someone with so much obvious contempt for the life she took and the behavior she exhibited during the act. That act is to his credit and his credit alone.

But the judge, being a former prosecutor herself, hardly comported herself professionally, in my opinion. Perhaps because of her relationship with the department, she might have been a bit too obvious in most of her behaviors as to which side she was leaning towards.

...I would expect, after the appeals process (which might have been why that "castle doctrine" nonsense was invoked in the first place), that Miss Guyger will probably do no more than half of the time she was sentenced to, if that.

...I guess maybe the judge's behavior wouldn't bother me so much if I had any idea if it was what she routinely does during cases brought before her. I guess the circumstances, on average, would matter in that, but still...

 

The criticism of his forgiveness is nonsense. White people have done the same thing against white perpetrators and black people have done it to black perpetrators. He didn’t forgive because of some subconscious need to be non threatening lol.

No you can think grace doctrine is ridiculous or useless and that’s fine, but saying he’s basically emasculating because of a need to be non threatening to white people is ridiculous.

I didn’t follow the case very well. Was it convincing that she made a mistake? My summary reading of the case makes that seem so unbelievable but maybe it was? I hear people saying she had contempt for the victim, what did you see in the trial that made you think that?

 

considering he was unarmed and non threatening, she had total disregard of his life

 

I'm not a criminal law expert. I did have to sit on a jury once where the prosecutor stood up and said, "this is only about whether this man is mentally fit to stand trial. the defense is going to present a doctor's report saying that he is not fit to stand trial...we will not be objecting and will not present any evidence to counter it. we agree with the defense that he currently isn't mentally fit to stand trial. but in Texas you have to have a jury make that decision, even if both sides agree."

 

The brother, like it or not & having read the recent historical arguments, that was his decision... The judge is out of line imo.

I won't say it's"heey let me get in on some of that forgiveness glory/fame too mindset, but just doesn't seem like her place.