"It isn’t just the coverage that changes. When presidents face the prospect of impeachment, they tend to discover a previously unsuspected capacity for restraint and compromise, at least in public. They know that their words can be used against them, so they fume in private. Johnson’s calls for the hanging of his political opponents yielded quickly to promises to defer to their judgment on the key questions of the day. Nixon raged to his aides, but tried to show a different face to the country. “Dignity, command, faith, head high, no fear, build a new spirit,” he told himself. Clinton sent bare-knuckled proxies to the television-news shows, but he and his staff chose their own words carefully. Trump is easily the most pugilistic president since Johnson; he’s never going to behave with decorous restraint. But if impeachment proceedings begin, his staff will surely redouble its efforts to curtail his tweeting, his lawyers will counsel silence, and his allies on Capitol Hill will beg for whatever civility he can muster. His ability to sidestep scandal by changing the subject—perhaps his greatest political skill—will diminish. " Are you really basing your argument on the fact Trump will feel the need to restrain himself? And then you have this beauty of an argument. "As Trump fights for his political survival, that struggle will overwhelm other concerns. This is the second benefit of impeachment: It paralyzes a wayward president’s ability to advance the undemocratic elements of his agenda." How does it paralyzed his agenda? and finally this argument. The fifth benefit of impeachment is that, even when it fails to remove a president, it severely damages his political prospects. Johnson, abandoned by Republicans and rejected by Democrats, did not run for a second term. Nixon resigned, and Gerald Ford, his successor, lost his bid for reelection. The voters have already made up their minds how is impeachment going to damage his political prospects of nothing else has. So in essence your entire argument is based on the author's opinions where he is going back to Andrew freaking Johnson to make points. So I ask you again give me something tangible that will be accomplished with impeachment instead of a bunch of hypotheticals who h have no real basis because Trump nor republicans have conscious of shown a capacity for restraint.
The more important question is why you are so 100% certain that the process of impeachment will have absolutely no impact on anything? Other than for Concern Troll reasons? Lets say a court rules the House can't subpoena taxes or whatever or compel witnesses without pending charges? In that case you are demonstrably wrong in your prognostication that the process has no impact. That's just one example. Anyway you've stated your views - i read it months ago - thanks.
The courts are already ruling against him and investigations are ongoing slapping the impeachment title on proceedings does not change that let the investigations play out. i am not 100% certain that it will change anything but knowing what we know about Trump and the Republican Senate the logic is behind my thinking on this. So your entire argument good impeachment is the hope that Trump will feel that he had to restrain himself and the hope that something emerges where republicans turn on Trump. I strongly disagree with your premise.
So if he gets re-elected you'll blame Democrats instead of republicans that will actually vote for him, largely because he is a republican. Including most of the republicans on this site?
I mean I obviously blame them and am deeply disappointed in them. They are a lost cause however. What do you want me to do, cry about them? I can’t count on my former fellow republicans to be courageous I need the democrats. I’m sorry it’s sucks for Democrats to carry that burden, but fate rarely calls on us at a moment of our choosing.
I know it isn’t fair for democrats but this is reality. The Republic is danger. They can worry about being good Democrats or they can save the republic. It isn’t fair and you can whine about where blame should lie but this is wear we are. The beacons are lit. The republic calls for aid. The democrats must answer.
I’m in the camp that as long as the Dems frame impeachment correctly as a documented case to the American people and for historical record of presidential criminality, impeachment will actually help them in 2020. The release of the articles of impeachment will not be redacted like the Mueller report and will be able to cover all areas of presidential misconduct. Not limited to what Rod Rosenstein mandates. If Impeachment is framed as strictly removal of the president, the idiots in the media and the Trumpers will frame the exercise as a zero sum game. I won!...the Senate cleared me! As long as Dems are clear about the intent, and can message correctly(which they suck at typically) impeachment will actually paint them as hero’s in the history books and helps them in 2020. In the end it will be the Senate who votes to say “I’m totally cool with criminality in the White House”. Just think about who looks good and bad under that precedent.
If the republic is in danger from a lawless rule (it is)....the mechanism to save it is.. impeachment. That is expressly what it's for. If it's useless then we should use it, let it be shown to be useless, and then get something else because we're gonna have to burn it all down anyway. I also think a lot of this is psychological... you can't impeach because we collectively decided you can't impeach, just like we collectively decided Trump couldn't win, or that the guardrails of our democracy were strong enough to prevent him from putting children in cages or doing Putins bidding or attempting to gut the DOJ and FBI...all of this logic has been ****ing wrong so far. A failure of imagination like Sept 11. Even if we're all ****ed anyway- I take solace in space aliens in 10000 years, after we've imploded, looking at a roll call of people like Ted "vote your conscience" Cruz, Graham, Rubio, Romney and the rest voting not guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors If they're going to enable our immolation (they are) make them sign the paper doing so.
Where did this idea that impeachment isn't politically smart comes from? Your own thoughts? The media? The conventional wisdom? The smart politicians? Other very smart people? Anyone remember political speculation not so long ago in 2016? Take one example - the comparison to the Clinton's impeachment. It is not a good one. A data set of 1 is not very relevant. The Clinton's impeachment and the potential Trump's impeachment are very different. People generally didn't care about Clinton private sexual affair, similar to them not caring too much about Trump private sexual affair. It might be immoral to many, but it's still their private affairs. I doubt you find any person saying the same toward attempted collusion with Russia and the obstruction of related investigations. Whatever the result and however people view of the end results (we know what it would likely be - impeached by House, go merry your way by Senate), it is quite clear that Trump's impeachment proceeding is greatly much more warranted than Clinton. Of course there are also many other different variables, but that also add to the argument that you can't simply view the political fall-out of both as similar. Although, I should remind people that even with the seemingly negative reaction to the impeachment of Clinton by the public, there was a strong political fall-out from it that negatively impacted the Democrat… for whatever reasons (maybe he read the public reaction wrongly or he just didn't want to gamble and wanted to take the "safe" path [notice a tendency of the Democrat?], Gore didn't want Clinton to stump for him in 2020 and ran away from Clinton's popular records, resulting in his lost by -0.01%. I take the opposite view. Not doing your duty, not going through impeachment proceeding when it is clearly warranted will have a negative backlash toward the DEM in 2020. Trump has done wrongs, and not holding him accountable is somewhat similar to the banks doing wrong causing the great recession, but they were not held accountable. That has a psychological impact that is negative to the party that could do something, but isn't willing because they are too afraid of upsetting some people, the very people that has already made up their mind, while they are blind to how upsetting that is for their core group, a group that include young people who is more susceptible to sitting out on election day.
What negative backlash could it have by not impeaching. How is impeaching Trump in the House holding him accountable? Would voters still not want to get rid of Trump? I am interested to know what positive impact you think it would have on 20/20? Not downplaying your beliefs just want a logical discussion on the merits.
[Premium Post] ShamFisher is on the brink of a mental breakdown! I haven't seen such passive aggressive rage and desperation since the avocado shortages of early 2019! According to the liberals, Trump must be impeached because he has committed the HIGHEST crime in the world: Hurting liberals' feelings. There is no more heinous offence! The only other thing that he could be impeached on would be obstructing the Democrats' attempts of framing him for Russian collusion. Never mind the fact that Mueller and his band of liberal attorneys found no evidence of collusion! Never mind the fact that not a single American was charged, indicted, or convicted of conspiracy with Russia to influence the 2016 election. No sir, what is far more important is that Trump called Elizabeth Warren "Pocahontas" and by golly, that just might have offended others who got into college based on false pretenses (like Obama). Sham is also upset that Obama is the first President in history to spy on an opponent's campaign. This should surprise no one, since Obama also spied on Angela Merkel, her ministers, and Associated Press journalists. He then weaponized and politicized the intel agencies to attack Trump... just like he politicized the IRS to attack conservatives. It's all a very consistent pattern of deception and dishonesty. He's a piece of trash, really, and with DECLASS, we are about to find out just how bad that trash stinks. So perhaps impeachment is on the table. For Obama. GOOD DAY
[Educational Post] ShamFisher has really let himself go intellectually. What we are witnessing is the equivalent of a 35-year old man incorporating sweatpants into his daily wardrobe. 1. Children in cages was an Obama-era policy. Trump ended it. 2. Trump was 100% cleared of the false allegations of conspiring with Russia. Read the Mueller report. 3. The DOJ and FBI concocted the entire Russian collusion fantasy in an attempt to prevent Trump's election, prevent his inauguration, and then remove him from office. They created the phony dossier, they spied on Trump campaign members, and they set up many meetings to entrap Trump surrogates. Thankfully, they were caught (DECLASS will lay it all out). The DOJ and FBI SHOULD be gutted -- they were corrupt to the core during the Obama years. Politicized and weaponized by raging liberals. Sneak preview of just one of the things that will flow from DECLASS: The infamous Trump Tower meeting with Don Jr and Natalia Veselnitskaya was a setup by the DNC-funded GPS Fusion group. And one of either Preet Bharara or Loretta Lynch let Ms. Veselnitskaya into the country (for this purpose) after her visa was denied multiple times previously. This is just one of several traps that the intel agencies tried to lay to ensare Trump in Russian collusion. Great American institutions were weaponized. Now the corrupt actors have been removed and are in serious legal jeopardy. Now THAT is justice. GOOD DAY
Lower turnout among DEM, especially young supporters that wanted an impeachment proceeding. When he's impeached but the Senate said nevermind, those Senators that voted nevermind will drive higher turnout among Dem and especially younger voters. It's not just the POTUS, but the Senate at play. Accountable by being impeached. He would be held accountable by the House. Yes, they would want him out, but to want degree? Would they get up from their comfy relax coach to go wait in a long line to cast their vote? 40% of people don't bother. My speculation. Your speculation. We are speculate, but right in front of us, we do not need to speculate on what is the right thing to do. Just do it and live with the results.
Either Obama knew what Russia was doing — which makes him complicit — or he had no idea — which makes him a joke.
