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fwiw: Harden actually is equally efficient to Durant, so far.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by heypartner, May 1, 2019.

  1. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    But how you explain Durant's 6'10 frame and armlength and shooting over everyone else?

    Harden is the smarter player, knowing where to get his shots off.

    Durant is that much more talented that he does not need his brains that much and still come up with almost the same efficiency.
     
  2. harold bingo

    harold bingo Member
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    Here’s a quick lesson in efficiency:

    Player A, let’s call him Devin Kurant, shoots 17/34 and goes 2/4 from 3. 50% shooting and 50% from 3, wow, that’s elite! Amazing shooter and incredibly efficient!

    Player B, call him Him Jarden, shoots 14/34 and 9/27 from 3. Yikes, what a chucker. 41% from the field and 33% from 3? This guy stinks, those are some low percentages! Those are Westbrook numbers.

    They both took 34 shots, A scored 36 points and B scored 37. Which is more efficient, the guy who’s 50% fg and 50% from 3 or the guy who’s 41% fg and 33% from 3?
     
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  3. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Right on the money.

    Without his disappearing acts and his emotional meltdowns, dude could be in the GOAT convo and could be easily GOAT.

    He could actually lead a team instead of joining a super team.

    Can do it all.

    But I guess Bball God is just.
     
  4. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Harden is matching Durant in simplistic measures (FGA, FTAs, Points), including TOs, which means he matches him in advanced metrics...that's how math works. So, if your comment applies to one, it applies to both.

    This is the heart of the question. Is Harden matching Durant enough. If they both improve scoring efficiency to regular season levels or above, is it enough. Or do we need to keep Durant at low numbers?

    How do you beat 4 HOFers in their prime?
     
  5. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    I can argue the math heyP.

    Harden got undercut on 4 triples (uncalled) in game 1.

    SO

    His eFG% should be WAAAAY higher.


    Take that for data!!
     
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  6. RocketsFido

    RocketsFido Member

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    this is a good example of why Rockets will never beat the Warriors unless Harden doubles his scoring output.

    KD has two of the greatest shooters of all time playing alongside him along with a dpoy and finals MVP winner for guarding Lebron.

    How exactly can Harden ever compete with that? It's impossible unless the Warriors have a bad series like last year and Cp3/Role players play out of their minds. This year the latter isn't happening.

    If Rockets want to win anything, it starts with not paying big money to CP3 or Capela and somehow acquiring two more young all-stars to play alongside Harden. None of that is happening so here we are.

    It's pointless to lose every year to the Warriors, I'd wish we just do a rebuild. We have the pieces to get future all-star level talent (Give Lakers what they want, star level players). Everyone already knows the Lakers are willing to trade the farm for AD. Even teams like the Suns who are desperate to make the playoffs would give in for a PG like CP3, they've been searching for a point guard to play alongside Booker for years.

    Capela is a piece you can keep while you do the rebuild, or go all-in and trade him for picks as well. He's on a great contract for most teams and can instantly be useful to a playoff team, especially in the east.


    We go through the same thing every year, lose to the warriors and wonder why. Last year was the dream year that resulted in the wrong injury in a bad time. It's not happening again, not with our cap space.
     
    #66 RocketsFido, May 2, 2019
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  7. blahblehblah

    blahblehblah Member

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    As my post stated, does it really matter that Harden's so-so performance is mirrored by Durant's? Yes Durant's numbers (like Hardens) in these two games in terms of efficiency is subpar, but unlike Harden his numbers are an exception to his usual playoff performance this season as well as past seasons.

    Durant in the 1st round - 35/5/5 on TS% 719 4 to ORTg 129
    Harden in the 1st round - 27/7/8 on TS% 529 6 to ORTg 103

    Harden matching Durants so-so play is most definitely not ENOUGH. Harden needs to perform at his regular season numbers and perform like an mvp for the Rockets to realistically have a shot. How do you beat 4 HOFer's in their prime? Last years Rockets nearly provided a good example of how. But unfortunately CP3's injury and Harden's subpar performance caused the Rockets to fall short.

    Harden vs GS 2018 WCF - ppg 28.7 rbs 5.6 ast 6.0 tos 5.0 on a TS% 538 ORTg 104 DRTg 112

    Want to beat a great team? Perhaps its start by elevating or maintaining your level of performance instead of drastically lowering it.
     
    #67 blahblehblah, May 2, 2019
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  8. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Allow me to try to explain why Popovich calls Harden the toughest cover in the league, over Durant.

    Let's start with Durant's numbers v GSW in the 7-game series prior to Cupcake.
    • (54% TS and 46 eFG% :eek:, 42 FG% and 29 3F% :eek:)
    Harden is an elite dribbler/driver.
    Harden is the superior passer.

    Because of that, shorter guys keep defenders honest and can create equal separation that taller guys only get, because they are tall. It balances out. Fear of dribbling/passing matches shooting over everyone. If Durant was on this team, you'd just trap him, and that would be that. GSW slows down Harden by building a f3cking wall behind the primary defender. (Watch how many times they are on Capela, and have *yet another* defender between Capela and Harden). Both defenses require disciple, fockass and effort to chase the others guys when a pass occurs. GSW would stop Durant, too, just like they did in 2016.

    Heck, imso, if Durant was on this teams and Harden didn't exist, GSW would beat us with PJ Tucker as replacement for Durant.

    Did I answer your question?

    Durant can't beat a double-team or trap ... he shoots too far away from the basket, unlike Hakeem. GSW proved that in 2016. Durant has to just passively pass the ball back to the PG or shoot horribly like in 2016.

    Unfortunately, you can double Durant...because of Green, Curry, Klay.
     
  9. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Yeah, thank you. You did but it was more of a rhetorical question.

    Or I could just say Durant has a higher center of gravity which makes him prone to mistakes, he can't be dribbling the ball all the time.

    As I responded to your theory my stance is that Durant cannot be efficiently compared to Harden as Durant's game does not revolve around passing/driving/dribbling.

    One can make a point that Durant could be more valuable at point is that a good PG is far more often to spot in the Draft than someone that can do what Durant can.

    Play above the rim, play below it, defend, pass, shoot, dribble in spare minutes.

    One thing I think you can compare him to Harden is not just efficiency but following point.

    Both guys tend to disappear in certain games! It happened. It is a knock on both of them in the Playoffs.

    (Both are questionable leaders in elimination games without another legit superstar to back them.)

    (I did not include Russ WB and Chris Paul as they were not legit superstars when they played with either of them.)
     
    #69 daywalker02, May 2, 2019
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  10. Voltik

    Voltik Member

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    He’ll just shred it with his teeth and dumpster it in his huge belly. Then he’ll get on TV and spew non factual horse **** from his anal.
     
  11. farhen

    farhen Member

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    durant has all the confidence in the world, while jimmy is carrying bunch or scrubs while also putting up numbers. Yeah okay tie but being down 0-2 media/fans won't recognized him :oops:
     
  12. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Durant shooting 20+ shots a game means Curry and Thompson get to shoot less. And since Durant shoots much less 3s than the other two guys, I can live with that.
     
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  13. basketballholic

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    Long 2's are a low efficiency shot, idiot.
     
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  14. MorningZippo

    MorningZippo Member

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    Running a Monte Carlo type simulation to find Harden’s Pareto optimal shooting attempts wouldn’t be too difficult. Honestly, if I’m thinking about it, Morey’s probably already done it.

    Judging from the way Harden has played, I’d bet the marginal trade off probably inverses for FGA and 3PA around 10 3PA.

    Obviously you could have a modifier for how good the defender is at 3P defense.

    I’d love to get my hands on Morey’s data. So many possibilities. Building a machine learning model with 100+ inputs would be awesome.
     
  15. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    The defense has done its job for the most part. We are keeping them below their regular season offense. The strategy of forcing them to iso Durant into tough 2's works. The problems happen when Curry runs pnr or Green starts initiating fastbreaks. But if we can keep the ball in Durant's hands we'll be fine

    Rockets offense is the problem.
     
  16. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Durant sucked in the playoffs his last 3 years in OKC. That's why he went to Golden State where teams couldnt send help on him
     
  17. basketballholic

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    I said he's been dominant despite crappy shot selection.
     
  18. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    You mean he's been bad but his teammates have been dominant.
     
  19. basketballholic

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    No. I mean he's been dominant despite bad shot selection. I also meant that even if he weren't dominant, it wouldn't matter, because he's playing with the best shooting backcourt in history, plus one of the greatest defenders ever. Oh. and two other great defenders (iggu/klay) to boot.
     
  20. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    I don't think he's been dominant. I think Curry/Draymond/Iggy have. Durant just gets the credit because he throws up a bunch of junk and ends up with the most points. He's a horrid passer too. Consistently late in finding teammates and inaccurate.
     

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