The whole Brexit process is unprecedented. May is trying to force something through for no reason - this is a generational decision and they put a silly deadline on it instead of finding a solution that everyone can support. The indicative votes are a good thing, in that they force parliament to take a position on all these options. And if they can't agree to anything, then that strengthens May's hand in pushing her deal. If they do agree to an alternative, then everyone has a theoretical way forward. Either way, it pushes things forward. This all should have happened 2 months ago except both May and Corbyn are idiots.
It isn't unprecedented. It just hasn't happened since 1906. They can't even say that is uncostitutional because they don't even have a constitution. When and IF (a big if) they find some option that can get a majority whether the government or not is binded by it they will just put an amendment to pass it and make it binding.
You mean it should have happened 2 years ago. The Brits only now 5 minutes before doomsday are trying to find a concesus. It's black comedy stuff here.
So it is 3 ministers resigning tonight. "As well as Richard Harrington, the Foreign Office minister Alistair Burt and the health minister Steve Brine have also resigned because they voted for the Letwin amendment, government sources have confirmed." All in all, 30 Torries proved to be average IQ and 8 Labour MPs proved to be brain dead.
A lot of the options that they seem to like to vote on are great for political posturing purposes, but they do not seem to be viable, implementable choices to replace a no-deal Brexit with. For example, they voted to trigger article 50 and notice was given to the EU, which started a two-year countdown clock, which technically expires this Friday. Then among other things, they passed a motion indicating they did not want to leave with no deal. That is all fine and well - I do not want them to leave without a good deal either - but what they did NOT vote for is to stop Brexit. So Brexit continues, without a deal, because they choose to vote against the deal. What do they want to do instead of leaving without a deal. Unless they can produce an answer - which almost certainly means different flavors of not leaving the EU - then they WILL leave with no deal. So what specifically will they support instead?
There are some who voted FOR tonight who are Leavers. They do not want to stop Brexit at all. They want a different Brexit than May's hard Brexit. I think that even Letwin himself who put in this amendment is a leaver. If anything has much chance to pass at this point is a soft staying in a custom union Brexit that is the most popular. BUT this amendment gives the MPs only 1 day to have these votes. A procedure that is 2 years too late, and is so complex, it's impossible to be solved so simply in one day. So they will have to take further votes, to extend this time. And then the government can have a war by trying to sabotage this proccess with stalling. This is the unravelling of the UK's political system to its bare threads. We could have a government sabotaging the parliament. Their system has faults and not even a constitution, but they wouldn't be laid bare for everyone in the world to see and laugh if it wasn't for Theresa May. It's a trainwreck.
It turns out the "People's Vote March," which many in the 'Fake News' establishment media had promoted as having over a million people in attendance, actually was attended by only 312,000 to 400,000. This is still a very strong attendance number and nothing to be ashamed of. But the lies and the continued efforts to mislead and manipulate the people to their establishment globalist elite Remainer agenda is something to be ashamed of. People’s Vote march claims that a million protesters joined in London ‘demolished by experts’ who predict it was actually 400,000 Experts claimed the actual number who attended on Saturday may have been as little as 312,000 to 400,000, according to factchecking website Full Fact. They claimed People’s Vote’s figure that there were 4.5 people per square metre appeared wide of the mark. Professor Keith Still of Manchester Metropolitan University said it could have been as low as 2 per square metre along the route. Arch Tory Brexiteer David Jones said: “400,000 is a respectable number. But it is a pity that the organisers felt the need to inflate it so much. We should remember the silent majority of the 17.4million who want us to leave the EU, and whose votes must be respected.”
The government announced that in case of a no deal, NI will have to be under direct rule from London, because of the DUP's inabillity to open the parliament. This will go down VERY well with Sinn Feinn and the paramilitaries. A good case for being found guilty of high treason. May and the Brexemists are doing everything in their power to get people murdered again.
It appears that not even Labour will support the revocation of Article 50, and maybe not a second referendum either. And of course they are not supporting Theresa May's deal with the EU either. Corbyn SHAMBLES: Now Labour reveals it WON'T back petition to revoke Article 50 Shadow international trade secretary Barry Gardiner said calling off Brexit or even backing a second referendum without producing alternatives to Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement would turn Labour into a “Remain party”. But Mr Gardiner rules out backing it, as the referendum produced under the terms of this motion would only represent a choice between Mrs May’s deal and remaining in the European Union. He told BBC Radio 4: "It would be saying we could accept what we have always said is a very bad deal. Therefore it looks as if the attempt to have a public vote on it is simply a way of trying to remain because nobody likes this deal. To put that up as the only alternative in a public vote and say we will let it go through looks as though you believe that at the end of it Remain would be the result. It is not where our policy has been. Our policy is clearly that we would support a public vote to stop no-deal or to stop a bad deal, but not that we would allow a bad deal as long as the public had the opportunity to reject Brexit altogether. That implies that you are a Remain party. The Labour Party is not a Remain party now. We have accepted the result of the referendum." Let's be clear on what the options are here. Brexit with Theresa May's deal (May 22, 2019 departure) Revoking Brexit (Article 50 - no departure) Participating in the May EU Parliamentary elections and then conducting a second referendum (Long delay) Brexit with no deal (April 12, 2019 departure) Even if there is some sort of overthrow of the Theresa May government and some other party or coalition takes over, they are still faced with these four choices. It appears Labour is not supporting the first two options and is shaky on supporting the third option. They will no doubt support other options that are great for political posturing purposes, but do nothing to change the options listed above. If Labour is not even going to support these first three options, then who will? Because if the UK Parliament fails to support any of the first three options by a majority vote, then option four is still the default. Am I right? Or, if not, then how is a no deal Brexit stopped without the UK Parliament affirmatively voting to implement one of the first three options above?
Not as great as the failure of your imagination. I expressed myself clearly in my previous post. All you have as a reply is 'no', without any description of what the correct alternative answer is, in your view. Could that be because you simply have no idea of what you are talking about? If this is the best you can do for a reply, then it certainly appears that this is the case.
Two options that the EU has made unequivocally clear are NOT open for discussion are a deal different from the one that Theresa May has presented, or a long delay without a clear reason for that delay, which basically comes down to a second referendum (revoking Article 50 would require no delay). So any votes on proposals for a different deal with the EU or a delay without a reason that the the EU considers acceptable (a second referendum) are a nothing more than a waste of time.
Farage is a weirdo. From his support of Roy Moore, to his push to give Trump to Nobel Peace Prize to his belief in Jewish conspiracies.
Soft Brexit is a different deal. That may be something that some MP's want. But the EU has already said Theresa May's deal on offer is the only one available, take it or leave it. Also, even if there was a snap general election, the new government would still have to choose between the four options listed above.
You only have to ask yourself why Farage if he was sooo influential as some american posters here believe, is only a MEP? Where is his MPs in the parliament? Nowhere to be found. Because he is a joke. Even the Green Party has a MP in the parliament but not Farage. His party got only 3 million votes in the 2017 general elections.
Wrong. The UK parliament could vote to change the political declaration, which is enough reason for a long extension. The political declaration was made by May herself without consulting anyone. If May's red lines dissappear then the EU is open to different discussions. Of course there will be EP elections in any long extension case. Also who told you that GE is not enough reason to extend? The EU itself has clearly said otherwise.
I read the 8 options Bercow decided. Even though some far fetched unicorns like the Mathouse compromise have been dismissed, many others are still unicorns. Keeping custom unions and all the priviledges without free movement? Also Bercow is increasingly intervening. Now he said that he pretty much will do everything in his power to obstruct MV3. I do not think that this is how a Speaker should behave, that shouldn't be his role in the polity. However the whole UK system makes one wonder how the hell they have been able to make any decisions all these centuries? Dictatorship is the answer. I don't know any other country, where the government decides the time of the parliament exclusively. Is this democracy???
