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The future of the EU and the UK, post-Brexit

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Yup. It doesn't look good. She wants to blackmail them into her deal but she isn't even good at that.

    Want to blackmail Labour? Promise you will only call GE if they vote for your deal otherwise you will resign for Boris Johnson.
    Want to blackmail Torries? Threaten you will ask for 21 months extension

    She did the opposite of that to save her own skin and stay in the PM seat for a few more days.
    This situation blackmails noone because the government is collapsing and everyone is happy to see that. Both Leavers and Remainers.
    They can't wait to send her off.
     
  2. malakas

    malakas Member

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    "Sources have said France, Spain, Belgium and maybe Italy stand prepared to reject an extension without evidence Parliament is now ready to accept a deal and “the deadlock can be broken”.

    Some member states worry there is no point to an extension as, even after 1,000 days of negotiation, Theresa May’s deal keeps being rejected and the EU cannot move any further towards the UK.

    One source said: “We’re not against an extension per se but we need to have two things - first a demonstration that the situation has changed and there is a guarantee the extension is for something and second that an extension won’t be detrimental to the EU.

    “Yes, a no-deal Brexit would be damaging and it’s absolutely not what we want but I think we’re ready to go to this situation because there are only two solutions - either a deal is accepted or there is no deal.

    “The deal has been rejected and it keeps being rejected so if we come to no-deal then so be it.”

    It is understood French president Emmanuel Macron believes Brexit is holding up his plans for radical reform of the EU and needs to be brought to a conclusion."


    Keep in mind that Spain and Belgium depend a lot on Scottish fishing waters. So the fact they want to veto is remarkable.

    They must have prepared a plan, to roast the british government in future negotiations of this.
     
  3. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Unless a number of people start changing their tunes in a way that they insist is not possible, then it appears that the UK will be Brexiting the EU with no deal on March 29, 2019.

    Who knew?
     
  4. malakas

    malakas Member

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    May was asked to resign one hour before tonight's public speech by Torries who supported her deal.
    She refused and it got very ugly.

    Then she went ahead with the speech which amounted to telling the public it's not her fault and they should turn their anger to the MPs.
    Now she's even more blasted by everyone.
    She was supposed to seek support from Labour but now all Labour is furious at her.

    Zero chance her deal passes on Monday.

    I think they are headed for General Election. They have the necessary votes to get her sacked.

    There will be plenty of Torries who rather have elections than head into no deal.
    Especially since her successor looks to be Boris Johnson and there have already been MPs saying they will resign the party and join the Independents.

    Perhaps a no confidence vote on Monday or even Friday.
    They shouldn't delay it any more, in case she is convinced to resign.
     
  5. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    So, you are predicting a general election before Brexit?
     
  6. Major

    Major Member

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    No, they won't.
     
  7. malakas

    malakas Member

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    I said I am not a lawyer so I don't know if a no confidence vote triggers automatically a general election or like in some countries in continental Europe the president/monarch will give the opposition the opportunity first to form a government and only if they fail there will be GE.

    The Torries didn't have the majority and had to form their government with the DUP, so Labour can also form a government with the Scotts and the Liberals in the current parliament.

    What I can tell is that May's speech yesterday met with an outcry by MPs by all parties who accuse her for being a populist who incites violence and if there is another MP murder she should take her part of the blame.

    May and Corbyn are both in Brussels today to talk in the Council. Senior EU politicians are saying that a long extension will be allowed, what will be vetoed is a short extension without any real change like what May is asking for.

    Barnier himself said last week that if there is General Election a long extension will be allowed.

    May's days are not just numbered the end is right ahead of us. I don't see how she makes it past next Tuesday.

    Could she even resign before a MV3? To save herself the humiliation?
    But she doesn't seem to have any shame so it looks she will have to be ousted and not resign.


    A General Election is a great alternative to a referendum or the parliament having indicative votes.
    Let the people decide with their vote what kind of Brexit they prefer.
     
  8. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Looks like a whole Cluster

    Rocket River
     
  9. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    No one knows what is going on ...

     
  10. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    This looks like a lot of wishful thinking by you.
     
  11. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Based on what your opinion?
    There are many political analysts who agree with my opinion and they know better than everyone here.
    You seem to be under the false assumption that falling a government is a difficult matter.

    If May was a normal politician she would have long resigned by now like Cameron did.
     
  12. malakas

    malakas Member

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    The Brits have been making a big deal about an online petition to revoke article 50 that has gathered over one million votes in 24 hours.

    I'm not impressed at all and if the people think that it will make a difference they are deluded. May wasn't even deterred when she was found in contempt of Parliament which has never happened before.
    If the citizens want to make a statement they should move their asses and take it to the streets.
    On Saturday there will be a Remain demonstration. Put your money and time where your mouth is instead of visiting websites.
    A signature online is nothing.
     
  13. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    These "experts" that you are listening to are routinely wrong. Wake up and smell the coffee.
     
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Again, wishful thinking.

    8 days to go. Tick tock.
     
  15. malakas

    malakas Member

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    You don't even know which expert I was reffering about but they are routinely wrong?
    :D

    Wishful thinking about what?
     
  16. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    In case anyone is interested, here is a link to an article with live quotes further down from pretty much all of the leaders of the EU at the Brussels summit. They are all pretty consistent in saying that the UK must pass the deal next week, or there will be no extension and they are out with no deal. Of course they could and might change their tunes at the last minute, but right now they all appear to be on the same page.


    The one thing I am surprised we are not hearing more talk about right now is John Bercow's ruling a few days ago that no such vote will even be permitted. For there to be a vote, there has to be a real life, functional plan to get the vote to be allowed by Bercow. Without that....
     
  17. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Wrong.


    The one that they rule out is a short extension without passing the vote, not a long extension.

    Also Bercow's ruling can be overriden by the Parliament itself. If May had all the votes she needed, she can override the Speaker.

    But May not only doesn't have the votes she needs she will have even less votes than last time maybe even than the first time. Everyone is angry at her.
    A MV3 is a waste of time.
     
  18. dmoneybangbang

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    That’s pot calling the kettle black, no? You have indicated you heavily wish for a no deal Brexit?
     
  19. dmoneybangbang

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    That’s pot calling the kettle black, no? You have indicated you heavily wish for a no deal Brexit?
     
  20. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    I heavily wish for a Brexit with a good deal. The current deal is a bad deal. So my first preference would be that they agree to a deal that will actually, clearly and legally consitutue a real Brexit, which the current deal does not. If that cannot be achieved, then leaving with no deal is better than accepting a bad deal, or effectively not leaving.
     

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