rivers is probably the best backup guard by a landslide, the rockets have grabbed since mda's arrival. how are these veteran guards going to showcase themselves without the ball. that's why this isn't an attractive spot for them in the first place
1. Not everyone having issues with not converting House now is "anti-Morey." So the fact that you use this label is itself a strawman. 2. What you laid out was not purely "factual" at all, and you know it. How are statements like "Clutchfans appoints Tilman Fertitta as public enemy #1 for his treatment of Danuel House and safeguarding of luxury tax" factual? Who is Clutchfans? 3. The real facts I laid out several pages back are these: a. The Rockets offered a mulit-year minimum deal to House and he declined. The Rockets are not going to offer anything more than what was on the table. That's a business decision on both sides, which is fine. b. The Rockets have not converted him so he is not eligible to play for the Rockets. Assuming he is not going to sign a multi-year contract, he will be a RFA after the season whether or not he is converted. These are the unadulterated facts. What the detractors believe are these: A. House can help the Rockets, especially when we have been having so many injuries. Even when we are mostly healthy now, we need to lighten the load of Paul and Harden to prevent injuries comes playoffs time. B. The Rockets are holding off converting House (probably until a certain date in late March) to avoid getting hit with the lux tax. C. Another possible reason for the Rockets not converting sooner is the "see who blink first" tactic to force House to accept the min offer on the table. These are opinions, not fact, and should be debated based on the stated facts in point #3 above.
Was not said. Direct quote required. Was not said. Direct quote required. I put something snarky in there. I hate the new 'never-Tilman' segment of Clutchfans. Seems like you left out some facts that I listed. Are they 'lesser' facts? Are some facts more important than others? I feel strongly that the FACT that House was undrafted and put up identical stats prior to this and received no major interest is relevant to a lot of people's agenda points here. I can't help but see that you didn't list it as a fact. Are you a certified fact checker, and where can I earn this same certification? Logic used here: Some facts are more factual than others Some things I said (in separate bullet points) are sarcasm, so the facts are adulterated Your facts, which are actually conclusions, are superior to a list of facts about House's career I responded to a post about strawmen and used strawmen, so your strawmen prove that my use of strawmen means... Danuel House.... wait, what. I agree with the end of your post and I like you as a poster. But I think the people being the most rational about House are the ones not posting in these threads. This conversation tends to be very ignorant and thus is going to earn the snark.
How is Rivers able to showcase himself? Other veteran guards can do the same. I agree he is the best guard but that does not make him indispensable.
rivers was able to showcase himself because he is capable of doing so. that's the point. you're generalizing other veteran guards being able to do the same. Which isn't necessarily true. Rivers showcased himself much more significantly when cp3 was down. look at him now when both harden/cp3 are playing, as well as gordon. The opportunities are extremely limited. he isn't doing anything spectacular. he's just showing that he can contribute in a role that is needed on this team and quite frankly for a pretty long time. If you're trying to showcase yourself individually, this isn't exactly the ideal place to do that. if you're trying to win and show you can just contribute in some way behind a core of guys already established then this can be a place to do so. did you not just see some buyout players not even look this way, only for a bigger role elsewhere on a lesser team
i am not generalizing anything I don't think Rivers has been anything special and I think other veteran guards can do the same thing. I disagree that this is not a place to showcase yourself especially when Rivers has done just that. the reason other veterans did not look this was is because Rivers had that rotation spot which would not be an issue if he leaves. i guess we just have a different opinion on what Rivers value is on this team, I think his skill set can be replaced with a league average player, the only thing that gives me pause is his defense which has been a surprise.
if other veteran guards could do the same thing, then the rockets would of had that type of guy on this roster for years now. and we know that isn't true. Of course you're generalizing it. you keep mentioning these veteran guards as if they're just plentiful, yet have not even named a single one. and one that is a viable option at that, which is something you're severely underestimating. And btw rivers is only 26 still with a ton of nba life ahead of himself. did you just all of a sudden forget the rockets went with mcw as their primary FA target to backup cp3/harden. how is that not a red flag to you
How does this fact has anything to do with whether or not the Rockets should convert his contract? Okay, I know the implied relevance. That fact supports the opinion that House is not worth being hit by the lux tax. But it is not an overwhelmingly convincing argument, IMO. Patrick Beverley, for example, was a second round pick and could not stick around. He played in Russia for three years with mediocre numbers until Morey signed him from Russia. He eventually played well enough for the Rockets to become a legit NBA rotation player. P.J. Tucker bounced around several Euro leagues until latching on to the Suns (one of the worst teams in the NBA) with mediocre numbers. I am not saying House will be another Beverley or Tucker. But he did play well enough in a fairly long stretch to show the promise. I don't think saying that he could help more than guys like Ennis, Green, and Clark is overrating him. When he was with the Rockets, he averaged more minutes, shot a higher percentage from deep than any of those guys, and seemed to be able to play decent defense.
the reason I am not naming guards is because I don't know who will become available but Ellington is one and Temple is another who I could possibly see. I did not forget anyone I don't know what MCW has to do with anything are you forgetting how we acquired Rivers, there will be those type of players also available IMO. there is a possibility that Shumpert fills that slot. no I don't think they are plentiful I just don't see Rivers as a must have, Tyler Johnson and Danny Green are other guys that might be interested.
niether ellington nor temple are capable ball handlers that can create. they are not the combo fit at backup for cp3/harden you don't know what mcw has to do anything? How about that's what the rockets were forced to go to be a backup to cp3/harden because its that difficult to find a rivers caliber player to be a backup here. And guess what he is absolute trash yeah you really are drastically underestimating how difficult it is to get a player like rivers in a limited backup role
Never been a knockdown shooter or lockdown defender throughout his career. He will regress to his mean.
I realize that most folks like to take any statement and try to hold the poster to the most extreme connotation that could be derived (by blowing it into a strawman argument)... but thats typically not the case... Do I think every player looking for a 2 way is gonna refuse to play for the Rockets? No, of course not... most guys will take what they can get... Do I think House's situation and the org saying that they "dont want to reward 2way players by converting them and having them use us as a springboard in the off season" is detrimental? Sure do... Hartenstein was a draft pick - who isnt on a 2 way... apples to oranges on that one... Clark got converted bc he was willing to accept the longer term 3/3.7 contract w a team option... Vince Edwards is our other 2 way... is his usage a positive to attract players to a 2 way contract - or a cautionary tale - or something in between? I would call it moot... Right now the message we are sending is... if you play well, we want to lock you up on a multi year min contract (Clark/House) - and if you aren't willing to do that we will 'cut off our nose to spite our face' and not convert you to try to keep your value down so we can negotiate from a position of leverage... It's business... i get it... but A) doesnt seem like an 'all in' move by Morey for this year... its doing without House (who could've helped us through injuries) and playing leverage for possible future cheap contract years... B) After having the rep for treating guys 'like assets' - this scenario doesnt help that perspective...
I dont know where you get this whole 'anti-Morey' camp... I'm not anti-morey... I've met the man - he came up to me at summer league and thanked me for my support... shook his hand, got an autograph... I like Morey and think he's a helluva a GM... Unfortunately, I dont like how he's handling this situation... Can I disagree with the man on how he handles a certain situation - or does that automatically make me anti-morey?
Was it at that moment that Morey made you see the light on our gimmick 3 point offense actually being smart?
I can barely remember what House looks like. Feels like he was with the team ten seasons ago so much has happened. I'd welcome him back because he did provide some energy off the bench. Hope he retires a Rocket. Let's go, Danuel!
This isn’t a bad comparison... Small sample size that stuck for a long time. GLeague ha so everyone’s attention these days though.
actually it was his 1st or 2nd year with us... so we hadnt gone all 3 crazy at that point... As I keep telling you... I have no prob with shooting many 3's... I just think we would benefit from a little more balance... The 3 ball is a high risk/high reward proposal.... and when we were a middle of the pack team - it made sense to gamble... Now I believe we are better than that and dont have to rely quite so heavily on shooting an inordinate # of 3's... Obviously successful teams shoot a high amount of 3's... we just do it to the ultimate extreme - and some times it can be detrimental... like going 0-27 when everything was on the line... Every year we are shooting 3s at a higher and higher rate than any team ever has - that includes the teams that have actually won championships...
It depends most people here dont have any idea what the "situation" is like but are disagreeing with how Morey is handling something. We don't know anything how House is like in practice or what happened in negotiations all we have our sound bites of House saying he doesn't owe the Rox anything and his demand to be a RFA so he can make big $$$ next year. As far as I'm concerned Morey handled the situation pretty well as House hasn't exactly dominated the GLeague, he is even behind both Hartenstein and Terrence Jones. Somebody who deserves to be in the NBA needs to play better than that as currently even Harty and TJones arent seeing play.
