Historic North Korea/South Korea Meeting - Trump Peace Prize?

You're totally misreading the situation.

Tensions between the two Koreas and the U.S. were very high when Trump entered office. Since then, we have seen a thawing of relations between the countries we have never seen before. We've seen Olympic cooperation, a cessation of propaganda broadcasts, President Moon visited NK, the reunion of North/South families, the demilitarization of the border etc.. etc... We could see a formal cessation of hostilities at some point in the next few years. Something that had really never been contemplated before Trump.

Yet, somehow, Democrats still try and spin this in a negative light, it's absolutely remarkable.

It's never "enough."

Even if Trump got the North to denuclearize, Kim Jong Un to step down and the North to democratize Democrats would spin it into a negative. The hate is unreal.

 

I'm not misreading anything.

The reality is that the North Korean government was on it's last leg when Trump took office and now it is the most stable it has been since Jong-il passed away. We will not see the fall of the oppressive government in North Korea anytime soon and that is because of Trump legitimizing their rule.

 

You're the one who necrobumped this thread with your typical BS tweets which you implied contradicted each other, which of course, they didn't.

If Trump deserves credit for anything it's for his work with regards to the Korean Peninsula. Lines of communication are open, progress is being made. It will be a long and difficult road to bring this conflict to a resolution.

What has occured between North and South during the Trump administration has been great. There is really no reasonable way to negatively look at it.

But for people like you, it will never be good enough.

 

Yea, actually, that isn't true. The North Korean government wasn't on its "last legs" and I don't think sanctions have lightened on NK since Trump took office. You're just making sh&t up.

 

No, North Korean leadership was certainly on it's last leg. They had been unable to prevent media from South Korea and phone out of their country. The level of poverty was horrendous and Jong-un was under constant threat of being overthrown. Jong-un went so far as to assassinate Kim Jong-nam to prevent a possible revolt in February of 2016. He killed his own uncle (the second most powerful man in Korea) to prevent him from grabbing power in 2013.

Further, Jong-un attempted to get a reaction from Obama with multiple "threats" to show his power. Obama (like the previous 6 Presidents) ignored his threats as a farce.

The situation in North Korea has only calmed down for Jong-un since Trump decided to legitimize his presence.

Trump set back US policy with North Korea decades.

 

Right after Trump met with the North Koreans China let up on their sanctions and economic pressure on North Korea.

 

There is absolutely 0 evidence the regime was about to collapse or on its "last legs." 0 evidence.

Nothing was changing.

Poverty/starvation and access to SK media has been rampant in NK for decades. NK lost 3.5 million people to famine in the 90s and it didn't bring about regime change. NK leadership has killed its own for decades. Nothing pointed to the imminent collapse of the regime.

The U.S. cannot control whether Russia/China enforce sanctions on NK.

At least now, channels of communication are open and flourishing between the North and South. A positive development. We, of course, should be wary and guarded about everything involving the North but to spin this as a negative is incredibly asinine.

If what you are seeing now is, "setting back US policy for decades" I'd love to hear how you would approach the situation though.

 

Zero evidence?

You mean other than Jong-un killing his closest blood rivals to preserve his power structure? That coupled with more North Koreans in positions of power attempting to get into South Korea? Yeah there was plenty of evidence but it isn't what you want to hear because it doesn't fit your narrative. There is a reason that every administration, regardless of policy, approached North Korea the same way. With North Korea at it's most vulnerable, President Trump decided to change course.

Also access to media, and cell phones had accelerated greatly in South Korea over the 5 years before Trump took office. North Korea was having difficulty preventing the West and South Korea culture from entering North Korea.

Legitimizing and saving the leadership of North Korea is what is asinine.

Also once the USA began negotiating with North Korea, that further opened the door for China to legitimize their activities with North Korea.

I'm sorry it doesn't fit your narrative of what you want to believe, but it is a fact. We now have no chance of a power change in North Korea anytime soon, and we have bolstered and legitimized a brutal and oppressive government. The glowing and flowery terms used by Trump are only further exacerbating the issue.

The North Koreans are not giving up their nukes. Now we have Putin inviting North Korea to high level meetings joining the lead of Trump.

Now Trump is actually preparing financial rewards in an effort to get North Korea to give up their nukes, only further strengthening the power base in North Korea.

It is a disaster and had Obama or any other administration pulled a similar stunt, they would be crucified.

 

The odds are greater that the ineptitude of our mistake-in-chief causes a war rather than preventing one. Not necessarily confined to the Korean peninsula, his incompetence is a global threat.

 

My narrative? My narrative is that the last 18 months have seen the greatest detente on the Korean Peninsula in most of our lifetimes. I don't care what President would have done it. I like seeing the thawing of tensions and all sides sitting down at the table and working together to bring an end to the war. I want to see the world change and become a better place. What was done the last 60+ years obviously wasn't working.

What evidence was there in 2017 that the regime was about to collapse? You cite examples of standard things that have occurred in NK for decades. Evidence of defections? Yup, that's been going on for decades. Evidence of the killing of potential rivals? Yup, pretty standard practice. That is not evidence that the regime was "on its last legs." You provide no evidence of that. It if were true I'm sure there would be some literature out there detailing that.

You think the 60 year stalemate on the peninsula was a good thing? And that things were going in the right direction when Trump took office? Absolutely laughable.

There is a reason SK has taken off and run with this opportunity for detente. The tension filled stalemate that had been going on since the 50's wasn't headed in a good direction.

Now, the U.S., SK and NK are using diplomacy to bring about a gradual peaceful stabilization on the peninsula. That's great. Will it work out? TBD but to act like how things were going before Trump took office was good is a total misreading of the situation.

This idea that you have that the current regime would have collapsed and that somehow democracy would have just sprung up and flourished in NK if we had just stayed the course is just absolutely ridiculous.

 

I’ve wasted enough time on this, you have an agenda and that is fine.

I will only point out that there was/is lots of evidence that North Korea was on its last leg. If you care to do the research, you will find it. This includes information from people in the intelligence community and also defectors from North Korea. Last the actions of the dictator were consistent with what the intelligence committee predicted.

Korea very well would have been unified under SK rule, which would be of enormous importance with the influence of China in that region of the world. Instead we have Trump legitimizing one of the most ruthless dictatorships in the world and China and Russia are both opening up negotiations with NK.

 

LMFO If this is accurate...

 

NK just played Trump and they are laughing.

 

Yeah and half the world will on some level pay the price.

 

Could be a countermove to what we have supported in Venezuela. Russia and China lose pretty big if (more like when) Maduro is finally dislodged from power.

 

Why don't we go back to economic sanctions?

 

You're keeping up with the amount of propaganda broadcasts from the past in comparison to now? That's amazing. You must spend a decent amount on keeping up with this stuff. Good job

 

It was moving mountains to get them in place - to get Russia and China behind them, and it takes years and years for their impact to be felt - decades. Once you open the door there will be YUGE resistance to stop economic inflow to NK and then you have to start from scratch.