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The future of the EU and the UK, post-Brexit

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    I think that the UK will develop trade agreements with the US and almost any other country that wants one, which will be in most cases better than what the EU has with those countries. And I think it may take a while, but in time the UK and the EU will get over the hard feelings associated with the UK exiting the EU and will develop a very good, reasonably sensible trade relationship.

    The UK is not going to be dependent on the EU for its success and anyone who thinks otherwise is going to be in for a surprise.
     
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  2. dmoneybangbang

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    And what does the UK have that we in the US need and vice versa? Why do you assume it will be better. The U.K. has higher food standards, are they going to lower them to trade with the US or another country?

    The UK will still have to follow the rules and standards of the E.U., their largest trading partner. If anyone thought they were escaping E.U. standards then they were ignorant.

    Anyone who thinks the U.K. will be stronger or is escaping their largest trading partner’s rules and standards, will be in for a surprise.
     
  3. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Any country that is not a part of the EU will certainly fail. The US should be worried unless they decide to join the EU.
     
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  4. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party are now pushing for a second referendum.

    Jeremy Corbyn backs MPs' plan to force a second Brexit referendum

    Labour has said the Commons should be able to vote on whether to hold a second referendum in an amendment the party submitted on Monday night to Theresa May’s Brexit update.

    It is the first time the party has asked MPs to formally consider a second poll, although the carefully worded compromise amendment did not commit the party’s leadership to backing a referendum if such a vote were to take place.

    The wording called for May’s government to hold a vote on two options – its alternative Brexit plan and whether to legislate “to hold a public vote on a deal or a proposition” that is supported by a majority in the Commons.

    {More at the link}​

    It is hard to see how this has any legs. First of all, while Theresa May and the Tories would like to see a deal, nobody knows of a deal that can even pass the UK Parliament. And whatever that might be - if there is such a thing - has zero chance of being ratified by all 27 countries of the EU, which is what has to happen for a deal to be finalized and adopted.

    Second, a second referendum will undermine the credibility of the UK's democracy in spectacular fashion. The EU and other countries in the EU have done this repeatedly over the last two decades, but so far the UK has refrained from climbing on the anti-democracy bandwagon. In fact, the UK's willingness to stay the course and finish the exiting process will be the demonstration that is necessary for it to show that is in fact committed to democracy, at a time when many people are starting to wonder.

    This is in fact more important than Brexit itself. However, it is by completing Brexit - without another vote - that the UK will establish itself as a truly unique and special country in the history of the world by showing even when it is hard that they are committed to democratic values and the democratic process.

    And now the Labour Party has gone all-in with the anti-democracy globalist establishment elites to endorse a process that is clearly designed to override and revoke the 2016 Brexit vote and the will of the people, democracy be damned.
     
  5. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Weak sauce. Having a second referendum is somehow less democratic than having just one. The first referendum, we do know, was marketed as something it was not, i.e. not a No Deal Brexit. Given the real choice between a No Deal Brexit and Stay, the UK voters can make a real choice.
     
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  6. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    And if it fails he'll be pushing for a third, and fourth, and fifth, and sixth.....basically just keep ignoring the results till you get one you like, that's the far left way.....that's the EU way.
     
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  7. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    British politicians may want to keep an eye on what is going on in France. Today President Macron issued a statement insisting that he would not follow Louis XVI to the guillotine. How reassuring is that?

    French President Macron vows not to follow Louis XVI to the guillotine

    VERSAILLES, France (Reuters) - President Emmanuel Macron told dozens of the world’s most powerful executives on Monday that he would not follow the path of guillotined French royals and would continue to reform the French economy despite a sometimes violent popular revolt.

    For the second year running, Macron hosted corporate A-listers like Microsoft Chief Executive Satya Nadella, Snapchat’s Evan Spiegel and JPMorgan Chase & Co CEO Jamie Dimon at a pre-Davos dinner at Versailles.

    Exactly 226 years after the decapitation of Louis XVI, who failed to plug the crown’s dismal finances and quell popular discontent over a sclerotic feudal society, Macron started his speech by invoking the king and his wife Marie-Antoinette. “If they met such an end, it is because they had given up on reforming,” Macron told the guests, according to his office.​

    Of course in the UK, the reforms that have been agreed upon with the population (the same root word as populists) through a national referendum are for the UK to leave the EU in no uncertain terms.
     
  8. dmoneybangbang

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    I realize you have me blocked and read my posts sometimes.

    But is that the best response you can muster? Pretty flaccid.
     
  9. dmoneybangbang

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    Well if you Brexiters didn’t run a dishonest referendum and actually had a plan instead of a bunch of emotional nostalgia then we wouldn’t be here.

    You Brexiters’ emotional nostalgia doesn’t produce results. Sorry.
     
  10. dmoneybangbang

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    Lol. What percentage of the vote did Brexit win? Essentially a coin flip?

    I love the hyperbole you use to make it seem like Brexit was some decisive victory.

    Since you love democracy so much, hold another referendum now that we have more information. I think you Brexiters are nervous your incompetence won’t win again....
     
  11. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    That is more than Obama won by in 2012. Perhaps we should have voted again.
     
  12. dmoneybangbang

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    Obama won both the popular vote and the electoral vote in 2012... But Trump is another story...

    What else you got? Was that?
     
  13. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    If we had 3 or 4 more votes while ignoring those where Obama wins, perhaps Obama would have lost eventually. That's EU style democracy.
     
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  14. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    We did 4 years later like always...
     
  15. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Yeah but if we did it the EU way we'd have had like 20 votes before that and started to remove voting rights from states that have different political opinions than is desired. Eventually we'd have gotten the desired result and called it democracy.
     
  16. dmoneybangbang

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    Lol. Dishonesty is the mark of the fool.

    Sucks you Brexiters only had emotions and no plans.
     
  17. dmoneybangbang

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    But if the people want a second referendum based off their representatives, that is democracy.

    You mad because you went limp when it was time to perform.
     
  18. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Who you call Brexiter?
    These arent real Brexiters just hypocrites.
    How can someone who isnt affected, doesnt understand or give a crap about the consequences be a real Brexiter?
    When you dont even know of the good friday agreement how can your opinion be qualified as anything else than just drivel?
    When you dont know something how can you reject it?

    There are real Brexiters but these arent it.
    The biggest farce is trying to equate american politics with british and european politics.
    Just because they are both in the west it doesnt make them same or even similar.

    Btw I had another good laugh today when the 20st richest man in UK who was a brexiter just upped and moved his business out of the country because of no deal fear. That should sit reaaaly well with May. LOL
    Lets see if she will force most of her government into resignment next week if she still insists in banning their free votes.

    When the political situation in the parliament has changed May like a blind woman is still going on her ways trying to enforce government dictatorship.
    Thats why she is incompetent. A good politician adapts to the reality.
     
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  19. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    The UK had been fairly independent of the continent for over 200 years before the Common Market. I think they will manage ok without it.
     
  20. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851

    in 2107, 44% of the UK exports went to the EU and
    53% of the UK exports went to the EU.

    Thus, you have an outstandingly silly opinion.

    But you be you.
     

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