I will shut down the government. I will take that mantle

I agree. I think that’s the elephant in the room.

 

Pelosi already getting Trump to negotiate.

 

I feel the best way to stop a leak is to fix it at the source. People aren’t crossing the border to come see the monuments, they are coming for work. If you remove the ability for the. To find work, you’d stop the vast majority of the flow across the border. IMHO, money that would be spent funding a wall would be better spent setting up systems for verification and aggressively pursuing companies that employee the undocumented for pennies on the dollar.

I feel the reason this isn’t happening is because the right pockets are being lined to turn a blind eye to any real solution.

 

The reason I think that the border barriers are also required is that not everyone coming here is coming here for legal work. I just don't see a downside to securing the border along with those other measures. Those who want to come here for work will still want to come here because you're never going to stop those seeking money if you are a rich country. There's plenty of cash business and illegal businesses for people to make money under the table. If they can't get legal work, they'll seek illegal work.

I just think if you have a leak you shut off the water at the source, but you still have to patch the hole or replace the pipe to fully complete the job.

 

I am sure, given enough time, Nancy Pelosi can teach Trump how to negotiate.

 

Psssst... he went to Jared!

 

If they didn't care they wouldn't be forcing federal workers to work for free.

Basically it totally proves the Rand/libertarian fantasy....the government is unnecessary...so long as you have an empire of unpaid serfs to do all of the things for free. Easy peasy.

 

Not sure if I'm a Rational Democrat or a Dumbass Independent or a Wayward Republican....but Trump is a crook. He's always been a chisling carnival barker, and I don't understand how some people don't see it, or if they do see it, they just don't care.

 

He's a politician, what do you expect? The US had to pick between 2 crooks and this is the one they went with.

 

I thought it was wierd that Trump had his little press conference to announce this awesome "new deal" late in the afternoon on a Saturday.

Reading the news this morning it starts to make sense.

The Saturday afternoon setup minimizes the amount of time between offering the "deal" and chance to send the minions out to make the rounds on the Sunday morning news shows after the Dems reject it.

In other words, Saturday afternoon is the best choice if you know the Dems will reject what you've alread offered, and your real concern is hammering on the opposition for political points on the political TV prime time that is Sunday morning.

The timing indicates Trump's handlers weren't actually looking for a deal, but rather a chance to stop the bleeding with Trumps approval rating.

 

All the "hard info" leading up to the 2016 also told you Hilary was a clear cut winner. Trump didn't have a chance.

Well, how did that work out for you?

It's easy to fall back on the strategy that everyone who doesn't agree with you is a conservative to avoid rational debate, or an ability to form your own opinion, but that's why this country fell into Trump's hands. This shut down is absurd because a physical wall is going to deter maybe a 100 illegals from crossing a year, but the democrats not budging on their stance of illegals in general is hurting them. A LOT.

 

$5,000,000,000 to stop 100 illegal immigrant... That's fifty million dollars per illegal immigrant?

Frankly that doesn't make me view the border wall any more favorably. Seems like it would be more efficient to do like the Roman's did with the Huns and pay them to stay on the other side of the border.

 

I do not support the border wall because it will not be anywhere near effective to justify it's cost. People will dig under, find ways etc.

But the Trump proposal is to have democrats make some concessions with the many, many loopholes illegal immigrants exploit the hurt the opportunities for legal immigrants, or ability to increase the number that can come to the country. From birthright to overstays to the general idea that open borders are a real thing, it is a delusional viewpoint. Everyone supports legal immigration, do not mix up the 2.

 

The initial 700 miles worth of border fencing which was supported by Democrats due to Trump not being a thing at the time ended up dropping the numbers by about half a million per year which is a cut of about half of what the total number was. Finishing the job would likely cut that number in half or more yet again.....so yeah, very worth it. The only thing getting in the way of doing this is Trump Derangement Syndrome.

 

3 or 4 days ago, a bunch of illegals dug under the existing wall , then handed themselves into authorities. The plan had worked.

Do you honestly think a wall is more effective than changing laws regarding overstays, birthright citizenship for undocumented, etc.

 

It would have been considerably more difficult to dig under the fence style system they were planning, either way, they were easily caught and that's the point. No system is completely impenetrable, and they aren't meant to be. What is intended is to slow down people and make them easier to catch. Those who dug under the wall were arrested and they'll be deported. I would suggest beefing up laws against illegal entry to where you could hand out hard labor sentences that get ever longer each time you are caught and deported. Use their free labor to help pay for the border security rather than doing it catch and release style.

Either way, the goal is to catch them and that happened in this instance.

 

They were caught because they intentionally handed themselves in. They wanted to be caught and be processed by the system.

When a permanent wall is in place, you will have more elaborate tunnels built and a false sense of security making slip ups even more likely.

As long as the system is open to being gamed, people will game it.

 

So what though? That's not really an argument for doing nothing at all and merely allowing anyone that wants to walk right in to the country. Tunnels are something that you can set up sensors for, when they happen, you catch them and shut them down. IMO you set up harsh legal penalties for anyone doing that and move on. It's like saying that people shouldn't have doors because you can bash them in.

 

Then that is a good start for negotiations. Dump the silly wall and let's talk about closing loopholes. Of course we know that wont happen... so are you shure it is really about loopholes? Seems to me it is still about the wall.

Seriously if Trump dropped the wall he could probably get just about any loophole closed that he wanted right now. He could then give a knowing wink to all the little Trumpies and claim the wall was a huge ruse all along and they'd probably love the hell out of him for it.