I believe I mentioned in one of my posts that we can keep siting examples and it gets us nowhere. I am with you a 100% to rest Harden as much as possible. I also agree with you that there are head scratching decisions that he makes. But i have to ask myself why would a seemingly intelligent individual make that call? I will leave that in the I don't know category as the only way to analyze his decision process is to know what he was exactly thinking at that moment.
Honest question... if LMM was healthy for the post season... would we have won 1 more game in the GSW series? Assuming CP3 injury was the same... LMM played less than 60 mins and went 2-15 for the series...
Well its not as easy as BnW, these posters are on the outside looking in obv they can say stuff like "limit Harden to just 30 mins I don't give a **** what he wants". But if your Morey for example can you go to MDA and tell him how to distribute PT? Of course not! First of all he will blame you for not giving him good players and secondly he will resent you for messing with his territory. And then there's James Harden. Can you tell him "Yo, I don't give a F what you want, we are not resigning Cp3 he costs too much". Obv Harden doesn't care how much Cp3 costs he just wanta him on the team to win a ring. Morey can play hardball but maybe Harden pulls his clout and gets him fired lol.
There's no problem expressing your opinion on a message board, the problem is you are countering what Harden wants with what you want. Do you not see a problem with that? The OP started with how MDA is running Harden into the ground and I just said that both Harden and MDA want the heavy mins. Maybe even Morey want this heavy mins because guess what Cp3 and EG are both injured. Now you suddenly jump in and tell me you don't care what Harden and MDA want, YOU want X Y Z. My point is so what? Why does what you want matter more than what Harden and MDA themselves want? And even if I agree with you so what? Like I said even if the entire CF state what they want it won't happen. So stating what you want to counter what Harden and MDA themselves want is pointless.
alright man, thats a reasonable take... Your initial came off more as a fu from u to me... As far as Harden and MDA on Hardens minutes... ehhh maybe they're figuring they can have their cake and eat it to by running Harden hard during these injuries and still leaving time for him to recoup after CP3, EGo, Ennis, etc are healthy... and be rested for the playoffs.... bc yeh, I do think 36 to 41 mins over the course of an entire season does carry more potential for fatigue and running outta gas come playoff time... At least thats what I hope is happening. I'd like to believe that they have learned from past missteps and aren't putting individual achievements and regular season accolades ahead of bigger team goals - cause we've seen how that can turn out... I still think PJ is being overrun at 33yo playing the highest mpg of his career - and it's starting to show... and at 33 CP3 was playing his highest mins since he was 29... up to his latest injury... so this minute management thing isn't just about Harden...
Yes, absolutely. He was very very good. He has not been the same since that injury. He was absolutely not the same player at all. He was very tentative and could not finish layups. And even if his offense dipped, he was our best perimeter defender. He had one of the highest net ratings for the seaosn.
Practically speaking, what Harden wants should be irrelevant. Most players want more minutes. The team's goal should be to look out for the best interests of the players and the franchise - not just do whatever the players want. If Harden wants more minutes to win an MVP but it hurts the team's chances to win a title, the team should come first. Anything else is selfish on Harden's part and stupid on the team's part. His history of fatigue and postseason comments about how they need to rest him more the next season should also be relevant. The smartest players have learned to rest more in recent years. The smartest coaches also have learned to force their players to rest throughout the season with DNPs. Those smart players and coaches also seem to win a lot. There's a correlation there.
I agree with that but as of right now, it looks like the only way the Rockets even get a decent seed for the playoffs is Harden playing all these minutes and having the "I'm winning another MVP" mindset. Unless CP3 comes back sooner from his injury and plays at the Cp3 level we expect of him, we're going to see these heavy minutes from Harden going forward.
Why are his wants irrelevant but his statements relevant? As for smart and winning coaches, I assume you mean people like Pop and Kerr. They have job security. Houston fans are calling for MDA to be fired.
I am not disagreeing your opinion in this thread. But I never understand this kind of thinking. Of course whatever we want as fan is pretty much irrelevant, unless you believe that Morey and MDA actually get the ideas of their jobs from reading CF. So why do we even have a board to discuss Rockets basketball if whatever we disagree with what the professionals decide is pointless? I've seen people claim that because we do not know better than the coaches, GMs, and whatnot, so we are not qualified to criticize whatever they do. That is like saying that because we are way worse as basketball players than even the g-leaguers, we are not qualified to criticize that some NBA players are bad players, or even a star player is having a bad game. You are one of the biggest critics of Ryan Anderson. But I bet you can't even make the lowest pro basketball league when the guy you criticize so much have been making a living for years in the best league in the world.
Yeah but you also need to look at context. Both EG and Cp3 were out, I think it is reasonable for Harden to play lots of mims given those two were out its not like he was playing in a blow out. Saying what Harden wants is irrelevant is something only a fan can say. If you are an owner, coach or GM how stupid is it to make your star's need irrelevant? Why would he even stay with that just pays him money but doesn't consider what he wants? He can get the max from every other team in the league why will he stay on a team what says what he wants is irrelevant? That's like a boss telling his subordinate what he wants is irrelevant, work 3 hours overtime on his wedding day. As with all things in life, there has to be a give and take.
Sorry, to clarify - I'm not talking about anything that would affect winning. The Rockets are certainly in a complex situation there. I pointed earlier to 4 games in December where Harden was playing in the final minutes of double-digit wins (one was 20 pts!) as examples of easy minutes to cut out. Because his wants are just personal future goals. His (and his coach's) statements were based on evidence of what they learned actually worked or did not work. After playing him lots of minutes in past seasons, they had evidence that he got tired at the end of the year and realized they needed to rest him. Now they are not putting those lessons learned into practice.
Yes I do criticize Ryan Scrubberson, but I don't tell other people what I want, do you understand the difference? I'm not saying what I want to be the reason I am right. Lile I already explained, i was just stating a fact, Harden's heavy mins are what he wants. You can disagree with what he wants and say those are not important, BUT it is pointless to tell me what you want which is that other poster did. I said Harden wants heavy mins and he said "I don't care about what Harden wants, I only care about X Y Z". Basically he is telling me his own demands and concerns and I don't understand how I should respond to that or what is even the point of telling me what he wants. If I tell you I don't care how many minutes Harden plays, I only care about how itchy Harden's beard really gets does that add anything to the conversation?
I pointed to numerous times he's played until the end of blowout wins just in the last month. For starters, he would stay because he's under contract for another 4 years. Beyond that, it's part of the coach's job to do what's best for the team. Every coach in the league does that. Players want to play through injuries all the time too - it's why doctors get to make the call instead of players and coaches. The NFL now forces the concussion protocol to use independent doctors to override not just players' (and coaches') wishes, but also team doctors. In this case, it's not about an injury, but about keeping players fresh. The whole point is that players are not the ones in the best position to judge how a team can best utilize them - they just want to play no matter what. If Harden is so selfish to demand a trade or pout because he his coach is trying to maximize the team's results, the Rockets have a problematic superstar anyway.
I am only refering to this specific instance because thats what the thread starter is refering to. The other games he played 36 mins or so, whether that was a blow out or not that is still acceptable PT. Harden doesn't have to stay he can demand a trade. It's not just Harden who will leave, no other star will sign with Houston ever again if they say what players want is irrelevant. There are 29 other teams in the league if other teams say they will value and treasure you the Rox say what you want is irrelevant you sign a contract you do what we want how do you think that is gonna turn out? Like I said everything isn't black or white, why is Harden selfish for trying to get MVP again esp when it leads to wins? You really think he will perform well if you make him frustrated by losing his MVP chances? Cause we all know how he played when he lost his MvP to Curry.
this thread needs to stay on the front page just a little bit longer before receding into the hole in the ground where it belongs D'Antoni needs to be called out for the fatigue that is clearly affecting Harden's performance
The difference is just semantic. Stating your opinion that Ryno is a scrub is actually saying that you WANT that dude to be off your team. You just don't put it in those words. A lot of our opinions about the team are actually what we want. Unless that "want" is outlandish like "I want to trade Ennis for LeBron" an opinion from a fan is pretty much what he wants the team to do. The reverse is also true. The poster saying reducing Harden's minutes is what he wants, is actually what he thinks is the right thing to do for the team. You can disagree with his opinion. But it isn't "pointless" in a fan discussion board because what he wants is not totally outlandish. Your opinion can actually be worded as "I want Harden to play as much as he wants."
