Harden has a better defensive RPM than Kawhi this year

I know they have several "scouts" that work for them reviewing film, but I don't know who they are or what their credentials might be. I think they have some objective guidelines to go by, such as the length of time an O lineman has to block for on a given play or extra credit to a defensive player beating their O lineman within a certain time...but even the determination of what responsibilities an O lineman would have on a given play are inherently subjective so there's plenty of room for error. There are plays where defenders run untouched through the O line and you have to decide who, if anyone, was tasked with blocking that guy since no one even tried. There are plays where a defender's entire responsibility is setting the edge and not letting anyone get outside of him. On those plays you can't ding them for not rushing the passer and getting a sack....and sometimes it merely looks like they were doing that because the O lineman tied them up so well. That's why people complain about PFF's data sometimes when it says things they don't agree with.

I don't doubt that GM's look at this data, but I bet they'd have something similar they'd gather for themselves. After all, each team has their own scouting department and they'd also have the benefit of knowing EXACTLY what happened and what each player's responsibility was on any given play. I would bet agents would use PFF data in salary negotiations since they probably wouldn't have access to the GM's private reports and metrics.

At least, I hope that's how it happens. Football seems to lag behind baseball and basketball when it comes to advanced metrics. It's very possible that many coaches and GM's around the league are old school and use more "gut instinct" type scouting reports not grounded in solid data.

 

Hardenis kicking peoples butts on a regular basis and everybody outside of H-town is salty. Kawhi cant make people guard him with their hands behind their back. Sometimes it Harden makes guys look like the position you take when you are going thru customs for a flight

 

Not even in the same realm defensively. Harden is one of the worst 50-100 defenders in the NBA. The rankings of all players on that stat is just total nonsense. Have a cursory look and literally everyone who watches entire games will have a chuckle. I wish the stat described what they claim it does. It certainly does not.

Luckily his ability to create points for us is so much better than Kawhi. When you combine Harden's ability to score without being assisted and his ability to assist others, he is unquestionably in the top 5 all time, arguably top 2. ALL TIME. There's no need to cherry pick muffled up stats to feel confident he's better than Kawhi Leonard right now, and I rate Kawhi a top 3 talent in the NBA. Harden is better at the moment and throughout most of the post Duncan era. The fact that Kawhi doesn't take on big defensive assignments or go full throttle during the regular season doesn't blind me to the fact that in a competitive playoff series, Kawhi gives you more than Lebron's last 2 years, Curry or AD.

No one in the NBA can defeat the post Durant Warriors without a legit second superstar and super role players. Harden came closer than anyone else, and our 2018 WCF team would crush the pre-Durant Warriors.

 

Come on, man. I agree with the top half that Harden is a special player of Alltime but against GSW?

You knew very well, Chris Paul won us 1 or couple games against the GSW in the WCF last year in the clutch. Harden did well but to say he alone came closer than anyone else........

It came as no surprise that once Chris Paul went out with injury, the team lost the series. That was how important Chris Paul was to that series!

 

1) Literally, no one has come closer and he is clearly the best player on that team.

2) How a team does with a player injured is a totally different assessment. We would have defeated the Warriors with any other top 15 player replacing Paul. Paul has never been that successful in his own career.

 

2) We'll never know if any of the Top 15 player would do as I recall someone like WB would make boneheaded plays.

It's not a sure thing.

3) CP3 was never successful, does not mean he can't be successful, and it was his first time in the WCF.

Could have been his first time in the Finals as well if he was healthy. I'll just stand by this statement.

4) Harden this last 10 games = Isn't last year Playoffs Harden

Mind you!

 

That’s interesting, but DRPM is less reliable as a defensive indicator compared to ORPM as an offensive indicator — despite being better than a lot of other defensive stats out there — so one can’t draw firm conclusions from something like this. Plus/minus is notoriously noisy in the first few months of a season, even this variant which tries to stabilize it somewhat by incorporating past data and box score statistics.

I suspect that Kawhi is actually much, much better than a net negative on defense. Like you said, DRPM is typically pretty good (so it’s useful to look at), but it doesn’t always get it right.

 

That’s interesting, but DRPM is less reliable as a defensive indicator compared to ORPM as an offensive indicator — despite being better than a lot of other defensive stats out there — so one can’t draw firm conclusions from something like this. Plus/minus is also notoriously noisy in the first few months of a season, even this variant which tries to stabilize it somewhat by incorporating past data and box score statistics.

I suspect that Kawhi is actually much, much better than a net negative on defense. Like you said, DRPM is typically pretty good (so it’s useful to look at), but it doesn’t always get it right.

 

LOL what's Cp3 (with Blake, DJ, & Reddicks) record against GSW before he bandwagonned with Harden

 

Trash article, go watch harden from 2014 and see how bad his defense are.
Harden can only shut down PF like anthony davis and karl anthony town but below average on quicker guards.

 

so you have to go all the way back 5 years.. hmmm

 

What I take from this is that the stats agree with the eye test that Kawhis defence has declined very much this year. In the last weeks he has started picking it up but its nowhere close how it was 3 seasons ago.

 

harden hasn't exactly gotten close to getting over the hurdle of GS. the closest hes gotten was with the "bandwagonned" cp3 since you want to look at it in those terms

the debate about each player's individual success is pretty dumb. theres not much difference. they need each other and there's nothing wrong with that

 

you really expect 1 star to beat 4 stars?

 

last i checked cp3 was 1 star so that logic should apply to him as well

 

he had 1 superstar & 1 allstar with him

are you really trying to debate cp3 >>>>> harden? LOL

 

super star? who's a superstar? please hes never had close to one. what a joke

who's trying to debate cp3>>>harden. if its anyone that's just you by yourself. stop putting words in people's mouths. its well known you can say no wrong about harden.

This was posted above. the debate about each player's individual success is pretty dumb. theres not much difference. they need each other and there's nothing wrong with that

 

Of course we'll never know, either way. But I think it's a safe bet considering Harden has taken Dwight Howard and Chris Paul to the WCF. Evidence is on my side. A boneheaded or ageing sidekick is most likely enough for Harden to beat anyone but the Warriors.

CP3 had enough time. What he showed and is showing is that he's not that guy. Maybe he can turn it on for a series, but that's not Harden level.

Winning is regular season and playoffs. The amount of attention Harden absorbs is the reason why Paul could magically suddenly take over games. Didn't work out for a single opponent last season.

 

I am not talking who has the best stats, I am just stating who is effective against which playoff opponent.

I call our bench including Josh Smith, Pablo Prigioni and Terrence Jones being effective against the Chris Paul led Clippers in the 2nd round.

We staged a comeback with those players and got to the WCF in 2015.

All those players were not on Chris Paul or Harden's level too but they played their hearts out in that particular series.

The Playoffs are as much about Matchup problems, roleplayer getting hot as much as the superstar leading the team to the promised land.

I recall a certain 6th man role player named young James Edward Harden Junior leading the OKC Thunder over a good Spurs team to the Finals.