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Harden 2018 / 2019 - GOAT Offensive Season?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by coyotetex, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. coyotetex

    coyotetex Member

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    Here is a list of the 25 greatest offensive seasons in Points Per Game:

    Year - Player - Points Per Game
    1962 Wilt Chamberlain 50.36
    1963 Wilt Chamberlain 44.83
    1961 Wilt Chamberlain 38.39
    1960 Wilt Chamberlain 37.60
    1987 Michael Jordan 37.09
    1964 Wilt Chamberlain 36.85
    1967 Rick Barry 35.58
    2006 Kobe Bryant 35.40
    1988 Michael Jordan 34.98
    1972 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 34.84
    1961 Elgin Baylor 34.77
    1965 Wilt Chamberlain 34.71
    1975 Bob McAdoo 34.52
    1973 Tiny Archibald 33.99
    1963 Elgin Baylor 33.99
    1990 Michael Jordan 33.57
    1966 Wilt Chamberlain 33.53
    1980 George Gervin 33.14
    2006 Allen Iverson 33.01
    1985 Bernard King 32.89
    1993 Michael Jordan 32.58
    1989 Michael Jordan 32.51
    2019 James Harden 32.30
    1982 George Gervin 32.29
    2003 Tracy McGrady 32.09

    Notice our own James Harden's 2019 season checks in at #23 on this all-time list.

    Now check out what happens when you do the same list ordered in Points per Field Goal Attempt:

    Year - Player - PPFGA
    2019 James Harden 1.49
    1989 Michael Jordan 1.47
    1988 Michael Jordan 1.44
    1990 Michael Jordan 1.40
    1972 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1.40
    1985 Bernard King 1.39
    1987 Michael Jordan 1.33
    1980 George Gervin 1.33
    1966 Wilt Chamberlain 1.33
    2003 Tracy McGrady 1.33
    1975 Bob McAdoo 1.32
    2006 Allen Iverson 1.30
    2006 Kobe Bryant 1.30
    1963 Wilt Chamberlain 1.29
    1973 Tiny Archibald 1.29
    1982 George Gervin 1.28
    1964 Wilt Chamberlain 1.28
    1962 Wilt Chamberlain 1.28
    1993 Michael Jordan 1.27
    1967 Rick Barry 1.24
    1961 Wilt Chamberlain 1.23
    1965 Wilt Chamberlain 1.22
    1963 Elgin Baylor 1.20
    1961 Elgin Baylor 1.17
    1960 Wilt Chamberlain 1.17

    Everyone on the all-time single season points per game scoring list that is ahead of Harden is there because they took more shots.

    To put it in further context, the greatest points per game season of all time is Chamberlain's 1962 campaign where he put in 50.36 points per night. To hit that milestone Wilt needed 39.5 field goal attempts a game.

    If Harden took 39.5 field goal attempts a game and maintained his 2019 scoring efficiency, he'd be putting up 58.86 points a game.

    Its also worth noting that only 3 people on this list have maintained a Points per Field Goal Attempt of 1.40 or greater. Harden (2019), Kareem (1972) and Michael Jordan (1988, 1989, 1990) Pretty exceptional company.

    The data shows that Harden is currently having one of the greatest seasons of all-time in terms of offensive efficiency.

    His only competition comes from Kevin Durant's 2014 campaign where KD was fractionally more efficient. But Harden may surpass that - he's been getting more efficient as the season goes on.

    Here is a link to the data if you are interested. Pretty fun stuff to look at.
     
  2. csj

    csj Member

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    If Harden could maintain his scoring efficiency while shooting 39.5 field goal attempts a game he would do so. The more you shoot, the worse shots you get.

    Comparing to Jordan's 1989 season you see similar efficiency and similar PPG. Harden isn't doing anything that hasn't already been done. Doesn't diminish the achievement, but GOAT it is not.
     
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  3. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!
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    Very impactful. Thanks.
     
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  4. Giant9erRocket

    Giant9erRocket Hakeem Olajuwon Status

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    Uh that's exactly why he posted these stats to compare him to other GOATs. What makes it not GOAT worthy? He's on par to match MJs 1989 season (which is godly) and is NUMBER ONE OVERALL at 1.49 PPFGA which has never been done before.

    Are you a burner account for some ESPN journalist or something? Stop hating.
     
  5. coyotetex

    coyotetex Member

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    You are using arguably the greatest single offensive season for any player in history as evidence that Harden 2019 is not in the running for greatest season of all time? If you are trying to make a fact based argument that its not the GOAT Offensive season, then I'm not sure saying it's been done before by the greatest player of all time in his greatest all around offensive season is a winning strategy.

    Case and point - here is a side by side of Offensive Stats between Jordan '89 and Harden '19:

    Jordan 1989 - MP: 40.2, FGA: 22.2 FG%: .538 3P%: .276 2P%: .553 eFG%: .553 FTA: 9.8 AST: 8.0 PTS: 32.5
    Harden 2019 - MP: 36.7 FGA: 21.7 FG%: .445 3P%: .376 2P%: .523 eFG%: .545 FTA: 10.2 AST: 8.4 PTS: 32.3

    Harden is playing 3.5 minutes less per game than Jordan, gets more shots per minute, more points per minute and has more assists.

    If you normalize counting stats assuming Harden were playing 40.2 Minutes per Game as Jordan did:

    Harden 2019 - MP: 40.2 FGA: 23.8 AST: 9.2 PTS: 35.3

    Seems like a strong case for GOAT to me.
     
  6. csj

    csj Member

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    The G in GOAT stands for Greatest. If the very stats provided show it's not the greatest, then it's not in the conversation.

    You have to be a moron to fail to understand this.
     
  7. Giant9erRocket

    Giant9erRocket Hakeem Olajuwon Status

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    You must be a Rockets hater who fails to understand that the 2018-2019 season isn't over and Harden has been ascending on a torrid pace lately. Have you watched the last 8 games or what? If he continues to play like this - it will be case closed for the GREATEST OF ALL TIME offensive season.

    YOU have to be a moron to fail to understand this.
     
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  8. csj

    csj Member

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    If you're arguing the "greatest season of all time", then yes, using "arguably the greatest single offensive season" would be an effective counter-argument. Seriously, does anyone read their garbage before they post it?

    Don't move the goalposts and don't construct straw men. No one said he's not "in the running", including you, and your previous claim did not include assists or minutes per game.

    If you want to compare greatest seasons, why restrict to offense? Jordan was the far more complete player while putting up comparable offensive numbers. There was no better backcourt stopper in his day than Jordan. He was also a far greater leader and winner. Of course, you could construct some measure that is flattering to Harden, then do a victory dance, but what's the point? Harden's a great player but he's not having a better season than Jordan ever had, as proven by your own numbers. As far as greatest offensive season, Wilt surpasses them both since efficiency isn't the primary measure, scoring is. 10 out of 10 people take Jordan over Harden given the choice, so this conversation doesn't matter.

    It's possible to simply enjoy the game without making up BS in order to brag about "your team".
     
  9. csj

    csj Member

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    I've responded to a stupid post with easily observable facts. I've done no "hating" on any player.

    You, on the other hand, resort immediately to name calling. This is why participating in sports forums is a waste of time, everyone acts like a child. Grow up and act like someone capable of having joined in 2001.
     
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  10. coyotetex

    coyotetex Member

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    Don't feed the trolls. He is obviously a fan of some other team here to take out his anger on the Rockets because he desperately wishes his team was relevant.

    This is what the ignore feature is for.
     
  11. Williamson

    Williamson JOSH CHRISTOPHER ONLY FAN
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    This is great and it's not even including his assist numbers which are also part of his offensive production.
     
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  12. csj

    csj Member

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    If you can't make an argument, then resort to insults, right coyotetex?

    Perhaps you should take your own advice and not "feed the trolls" next time you think of posting a poorly considered argument.

    But yes, by all means use the "ignore feature" to avoid confronting the reality of your own weak position.
     
  13. saleem

    saleem Member

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    Harden is at his peak now, even better as compared to his MVP performance last season. I don't expect too much efficiency though, as we are handicapped. He is nothing short of being sensational.
     
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  14. coyotetex

    coyotetex Member

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  15. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Good stuff. Someone that is good with words needs to wrap this all up in 280 characters and post it as a tweet to circulate that info.

     
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  16. coyotetex

    coyotetex Member

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    Your wish is my command - here are 280 chars. Someone else will have to post as I don't do Twitter.

    Is Harden 2019 putting up the GOAT Offensive Season?!?!

    The Beard with better Points per Field Goal Attempt than Jordan, Wilt, Kareem or James. 2019 Harden maybe superior to 1989 Jordan.

    Check out stats http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/harden-2018-2019-goat-offensive-season.295246/

    #nba #Rockets #ESPN @maxkellerman @dmorey
     
  17. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Thanks :cool: Just posted to twitter.

     
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  18. coyotetex

    coyotetex Member

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    Will be interesting to see if anyone reacts. Would be cool to get a retweet from Dork Elvis.
     
    clutchdabear, Deuce and vlaurelio like this.
  19. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    simple question which superstar would you have rather have single handedly carrying the rockets?
     
  20. csj

    csj Member

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    Sounds more like a loaded question. I'd rather not have anyone "single handedly carrying the rockets", but Hakeem would be a good choice. I'd take a player you could run your offense through AND have anchor your defense.

    Simple question: why would you ask me this question?
     

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