[Foreign Policy] The Death of Global Order Was Caused by Clinton, Bush, and Obama

How would Islamic extremism have been checked and how does that disprove that the Soviets would not have tried to further there footprint in the middle east?

Are you saying the U.S. Should have just let Russia have free reign of the middle east?

Don't have a dog in this fight but I don't understand what you are say would or should have happened.

 

Did you even click on the link???

The USSR DID NOT WANT TO SEND TROOPS INTO AFGHANISTAN!

They refused time and time again and only did so after the region was completely destabilized by insurgents supported by Pakistan and the US. It was our side that created the crisis that forced Moscow's hand. Do you understand that?

Let me restate this another way: Bin Laden was on our side - they were anti-communist and were looking to destabilize the pro-Russian Afghani gov't and Pakistan and the US worked to that end. The success of that campaign is what led the USSR to invade in an effort to root out the insurgency.

The Islamic groups that fought against Russia - supported by Pakistan and the US - is what eventually evolved into Al Qaeda.

 

I got all I needed to know from the article from the first sentence.
"There is no question that Trump places little value in democracy, human rights, the rule of law, or other classic liberal values" I stopped reading there.
" or other Liberal values." these should be values of man kind not just labeled 'liberal'.

You can go back to Reagan for the cruelty of Foreign policy, even to JFK or when Marines first landed in Honduras in 1905. Can you believe it? In 1905 eggball was causing deaths left and right that Teddy Roosevelt changed the game forever. Not many know that a drawing of teddy Roosevelt inspired the teddy bear. Without Theodore there is no trumpy bear! Many people are saying Santa Claus movies are not what they used to be, they're MArginal at best! Remember when you were little and there was a santa movie every year, like Prancer and the one where the dad works in the oil rigs and they're like drill baby drill !in the north pole? Foreign policy

ramblings of the mad 'hambre'.

 

BS.

 

You get mad at the right for not doing their homework and learning the truth. And here you are guilty of the same thing.

Dude, really?

 

Do you actually think that Islamic extremism would have never happened if not for Afghanistan?

You do know that Bin Laden was based in the Sudan before Afghanistan right?

And that his base of power and money was from Saudi Arabia.

Bin Laden's biggest gripe was us being in Saudi.

I know

 

Heck no, the Soviet Union was a genuine threat (that Russia simply isn't), it had satellites all over the world espousing their world view, Asia, half of Europe, parts of America and growing influence in Africa.

In many ways it was a race against time, the US' war on the Soviets was economically driven because that's the inherent weakness of socialism, its economically unfeasible, the Soviet war on the US was cultural though, they called it demoralisation,where they infiltrated the press, academia etc (look at how many kids are identifying as socialist now, that hat they were setting the table for).

In terms of trade offs, Islamic extremism as a cost of ending the communist threat is one that would be taken 1000 times out of 1000, sure if they could go back in time and change minor details they would, but not having some mistakes in a greater conflict like that one would be like having a 100% hit rate on the share market or business.

 

Islamic Extremism existed prior to Afghanistan. The CIA taught the extremists how to fight guerilla wars and make bombs. Would they have not learned that anyway? Hard to say, but certainly would have been better

FALSE! He first went to Pakistan/Afghanistan in 1979 where he founded Al Qaeda. He went to Sudan in 1992.

He facilitated CIA weapons and training as well as provided his own money.

After the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan.

The Soviet Union was perceived to be a threat but in hindsight was not a serious threat. They were always cash poor and what drove them to collapse wasn't fighting proxy wars in Afghanistan but perhaps was the arms race with the US accelerated their collapse - which almost also bankrupted the US. You said it yourself, socialism is doomed to fail as it has an inherent economic weakness - this is why China has embraced capitalism.

Russia is now fighting a cultural war like they never have. Where as McCarthyism was the definition of a witchhunt, today's Russia is actively engaged in pushing a right-wing agenda across the world. This is a far greater threat to us than Communism ever was.

 

Jihadi were used twice by Jimmy Carter:

• Keeping the Soviet Union's hand tied up into gorillas war

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski

• Replacements to pro-Palestain ties with Marxists by positioning Islamists to take the lead on this front and isolates others(Islamic republic of Iran,Arab Afghanies)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_the_Jackal

 

Sam, too bad you might get out of the NYT bubbl which as you acknowledge is "orange man bad ".

Good post. Many like Sam Fisher an intelligent man are not willing to even read something outside the 80% foreign affairs bubble that brought us the Iraq War-- and proud to do so. Just so sad.

 

What the hell are you talking about? Your party is now pushing for wars just to oppose Trump.

 

Jimmy Carter sponsored Carlos the Jackal and the Soviets were forced to invade Afghanistan. Uh, yeah. That's history. Lol.