I will shut down the government. I will take that mantle

I will take that mantle.

 

The question is, do we really need to sink $5 billion into some symbolic form of bigotry, or could that money go to things that really matter, like helping our vets with healthcare, which is really needed, or perhaps helping the general public with healthcare? How about better education?

This thing is just another ploy by the .05%ers that run the country to distract us from the real problems this country faces. Unfortunately, we're falling behind the rest of the world because of it.

 

This is nonsensical.

 

It's not random or arbitrary, there are promises that matter and those that do not. It's the same for any president. Obama's base didn't care that he lied about shutting down Guantanamo Bay, they didn't even care when he blatantly lied about being able to keep your doctor and your insurance plan.....but there are things they would have cared about if they turned out to be lies.

With Trump, no one is going to hold him to that "Mexico will pay for the wall" nonsense that he said during his campaign, but they will hold him to building a wall. Especially after he said he'd never sign another bill kicking the can down the road without that funding. This would be something his base would hold against him and that's why he can't cave if he wants ANY chance of re-election. This would be a "read my lips" moment.

 

I'm against the wall because it would be an environmental nightmare effecting animal migrations and access to the vital water of the Rio Grande. Also it's

Obama didn't deliver on those two issues you mention because he had a hostile obstructionist Congress. I guess Mexico's government is hostile to Trump. (and Obama's campaign promises had some basis in fact not just overt bullshit to fool the rubes)

 

How bout using it for that giant F.O. military parade....??

 

That's just about the worst possible reason to oppose it, but I accept your opinion.

That's simply not true. He didn't deliver on the first thing because when he promised it he was too naive to know what doing so would entail. Once he became president, he realized it wasn't a promise he could keep.....similar to when Trump promised that Mexico would pay for the wall. He naively assumed he could or should make it happen and then realized he was wrong.

As to the Obamacare lie, he knew from the beginning that it was a lie, but it was a flat out lie that was vital to selling people on the deal....essentially "overt bullshit to foool the rubes". Not many people truly believed Obama when he said it, and his base didn't care when it was proven to be a lie he repeated for months. Again, there are some outright lies that matter to your base, and some that don't. Even better, the same "rubes" that ate up the lie then moved on to blaming his lies on others. These things don't really change, just the names of the politicians and what policy they are lying about do.

 

"I will be proud to shut down the Gov't."- Donald Trump

Sorry, you can't spin this any other way. The Donald has spoken.

 

Building a wall is as much nonsense as Mexico paying for it. Both of them are off-the-chart stupid ideas. You or anyone else determining that one is important to keep and the other doesn't matter is just silly.

 

No, it isn't. They had a bill which allocated money to border security. Trump at first said he would take it then decided against it. It is only his fault. He even promised to take the mantle and responsibility for it.

 

LOL... and yes, there is always a tweet from the past...

 

Shows both the cruelty and dishonesty of the trump/republican government shutdown...

 

I can see how that might be the current view of the anti-Trump crowd, but that's not really true. Building a physical border is actually a pretty good idea, but it wouldn't be the end of a problem, just a step towards fixing the problem. If you have a physical border, it makes patrolling that border a LOT easier. People can still get past the wall obviously, but in smaller numbers and it will take a lot more time making it more likely that they will be caught in the act.

Again though, the Trump Derangement Syndrome crowd isn't really a demographic that anyone should seriously consider, the pathological nature of their beliefs prevent them from rational thought when it comes to things involving the president. They are very similar to the "birthers" when Obama was in office.

 

The wall is an idiotic idea. It is only a step toward creating more problems. There are areas where a wall and fence make sense and others where it doesn't. A wall all along the border is just plain stupid. The money required to build and maintain a wall could be better used in drones, surveillance, fixing our drug laws, etc.

 

Have you looked at a map of the Texas border? ever been there?

Because access to the Rio Grand is pretty important, for people and wildlife. Look at the reservoirs and the developments on them, where are you putting the wall? How does a wall relate to the number of people overstaying legal visa's? Has Israel's wall stop Palestinians from tunneling under it?Would it stop cartels from dropping shipments over it with drones? Think those 'steel slats' would stand up to plasma torches? As fast as they put it up, the steel would be showing up in Mexican scrap yards.

If you want to build a series of towers with down-looking radar and infrared detectors monitored by AI with dispatch-able drones and a rapid apprehension force, get back to me.

 

Of course that's what you think. I've heard those talking points before and they are usually said in defense of doing nothing. The funding that is being demanded right now would be used on the areas where a wall makes sense, so you need to find better talking points to justify your opposition to everything orange man tries to do.

Building a border wall makes absolute sense if the goal is to make illegal immigration more difficult. It makes no sense if you want to continue the flow of illegal immigrants, which let's face it, Democrats merely view them as future loyal voters once they manage to get enough control to push forward with an amnesty bill and that's why they are opposed to literally anything that would actually help stop the problem.

As I've said, a wall wouldn't be the end all, be all, but it would be part of the solution. It would make patrolling the border much easier and if you then enacted laws that would set up an e-verify type system with harsh penalties to anyone hiring illegals without going through the system, you could pretty much eliminate the problem. If they couldn't find work, you'd have those same illegals wanting to go home.

No other developed first world country would put up with an illegal immigration problem like the US has, literally any other developed first would country would have had a border wall in place already if they faced even a fraction of the problem the US faces.

Yes, I've been to the Texas border, I've been to the Arizona border as well.....hell I was stationed there for quite a while. Nothing you've said is legitimate reason to not build a physical border. Just as I stated before, it wouldn't be the end all, be all, but it would be a step in the right direction. Simple sensors along the wall would detect tunneling and cartels using drones is the least of my concerns. If the wall was attacked, you'd have border patrol respond to it and an attack on the wall should be met with lethal force if necessary as it's an attack on the country itself the same as if it was an attack on an embassy. It wouldn't take long before that didn't happen anymore. You'd have sensors and cameras set up that would alert border patrol when the wall was being attacked, and they could pretty quickly respond.

Again, it certainly seems as if those who are constantly against any effort to secure the border are either fine with the problem or actively supportive of the problem....wonder why that might be?

Interestingly enough, some of the most anti-illegal immigration people I personally know are legal immigrants themselves and pretty much all of the most pro-illegal immigration people I personally know are white upper middle class (or better off than that) Democrats or those to the left of the Democrats. Odd right?

 

Can we talk about the illegals Trump employs or has employed and how they are taking away from the economy?

Can we talk about the millions of dollars in taxes the Trump's have reportedly avoided paying New York state?

Or let's talk about how he reportedly ordered blacks and women removed from his casino floors when certain people would show up. Namely, those loosley associated with the mob. Or how about when his casino reportedly took a pregnant worker off a casino floor and forced her to wear a clown suit to hide her pregnancy?


Or how he said certain Indian tribes were "not real Indians" because they wanted to build a rival casino.

I don't like taking any kind of driection from a fraud. As a nation, I feel like we have better character and integrity than this. It's sad really.

I also don't get how all of a sudden you can act outraged by essentially the same things that you've been doing or supporting most of your life. But so goes our Dearest Leader and most of his followers...

 

You really do love beating up on strawman's.

It would be so much easier to say you're opposed to the wall because you don't want any more Mexicans in the country, but realize, not one person here has said that to you and have focused on attacking your points....yet you then claim that they just have Trump Derangement Syndrome and that their worries aren't legitimate.