I will shut down the government. I will take that mantle

The wall is a stupid idea built by an idiot to please idiots.

If he wants his wall, he has too offer up something else.

 

The reason is that he's perfectly fine not allowing them to do anything at all for the rest of the time he's in office, hell, it would help him win re-election and help the Republicans take back the house. Putting his foot down and demanding what got him elected won't play poorly with his base.....especially since we're not talking about a terribly expensive thing here. The president has no reason to go back on something he's promised many times but the congress has a lot to lose by keeping things shut down simply because of their desire to be obstructionists.

 

Wait. So even you think this fight is about a small victory yet you assign all of the blame to the Democrats.

how about you factor in that the Republicans control the Senate and can't even bring it up to vote.

They did compromise and had a deal until trump backed out.

remember the Chuck and Nancy meeting.

 

Compromise? So, what do the Democrats get out of this?

Again, people value different things. 5 billion for a wall that will not work is 5 billion wasted. 5 billion is a lot of money that could go to plenty of things.

Do you budget this way? Seems like a pretty bad way to manage your funds. The whole "Well, it's not much..." approach.

 

If I was making a budget and I was considering going to the bar for 50 bucks or buying another house for 500K, I don't think I could claim poverty over the $50 bar tab while pushing for the 500K house. That's effectively what Democrats are doing when they pretend like spending 5 billion on a wall is too expensive but a 4 trillion dollar a year healthcare plan isn't.

As to what Democrats get out of this, that's why there would be negotiation. So far they've said that the funding won't happen no matter what because there's nothing to them worth letting Trump get a small win.....and that's why you need to shut down the government and drag them back to the negotiating table. At some point their childish attitude will change and they'll negotiate in good faith.

 

So you have abandoned the notion that both sides need to come back to the middle? Because it sounds like you want the Democrats to compromise while Trump does whatever he wants since his base will still support him.

And once again, he never promised he would get Congress to pay for a wall... he promised that Mexico would pay for it. He has now changed his promise and you seem to be ignoring it.

And your premise that the only reason Congress doesn't want the wall in the bill is to be obstructionists is just an assertion by you. Just because you say something doesn't make it the truth. I've already given you other reasons why they might not want the wall in the bill.

 

No, the middle is negotiating, it's an extreme position to say that there's nothing worth allowing the president to have a small win. Forcing congressional Democrats to shed their pathological Trump Derangement Syndrome and work with the president is worth shutting down the government especially with divided government coming up. Things won't get better with the current mindset of congressional Democrats, so forcing them back to the negotiating table could lead to better relations going forward. If they give in to the tantrums from congressional Democrats, that's all that you'll get for the next 2 years.

 

Is Trump a child? Why does he need a small win?

You understand that the President and Congress need to work together, right? You seem to be blaming the current state of politics completely on the Democrats and their supposed unwillingness to work with Trump, while glossing over the fact that Trump and Republicans aren't exactly foaming at the mouth to work with Democrats.

And it's funny that in your mind the Democrats are throwing a tantrum, when it is the President who is threatening to shut down the government because he can't get money from Congress to get a wall built that he promised he could get built with money from Mexico.

And I noticed you still haven't responded to the fact that Trump changed his promise, and instead think that Congress is supposed to bend over and acquiesce to his will all in the name of better negotiating in the future. It is amazing that you think Trump is free of blame in this situation. He made the promise that he couldn't keep, and he should be the first to make compromises because of it. And no amount of made up syndromes changes that.

 

THE PRESIDENT CAMPAIGNED ON MEXICO PAYING FOR THE WALL.

 

It's something he promised to do, and he'd rather the government shut down for the next 2 years rather than have him pull a 41 and go back on that promise. Time will tell if congressional Democrats would rather have the government shut down for the next 2 years rather than allowing Trump to keep his promise. It's well known that the current congressional Democrats are VERY anti-border security, we'll see just how deep their convictions go. How important is it to them to be obstructionists?

 

Let's not forget that they had passed an extension that would have kept the government running, Trump didn't want it.

He's the only one throwing a tantrum about this because he knows after Jan 3rd there will be close to 0 chance he gets his wall and Bobby is right about one thing. It will piss his base off. That is the one thing that connects them with Trump, their views on immigration. A lot of them will never forgive him if he grants amnesty or gives up on the wall. I completely expected that Ann Coulter tweet and the reaction from the hard right once there were signs that he was going to punt on the wall issue.

If anyone needs to come to the middle it is Trump. He needs to drop his hard-right base. If he did that, boast about the Criminal Justice Reform he just passed, dropped the wall for more commonsense immigration reform, he'd probably win a lot more moderates and independents and get a 2nd term.

 

This my friends is why arguing with Bobby is pointless.

Many people have already told him that Trump promised that Mexico was paying for the wall.

Yet he keeps ignoring this.

Why even waste precious seconds typing up responses to him?

Just let him be.

 

It's absolutely pointless to try and argue with me if you refuse to stay on topic because you don't have anything of substance to say about the actual conversation that is being had. Seeking to derail the conversation often doesn't work with me, so I agree with you there, you might as well just not try in the first place.

 

Wow... so your strategy is to ignore anything I say and keep repeating the same stuff... Good to know.

I'll just say this one more time: He didn't campaign on just building a wall... he specifically said Mexico would pay for it. It seems that you don't like to dabble in facts when you are in a debate, but unfortunately this is one that can't be ignored, at least if your argument is to hold any water.

But by all means keep repeating the same stuff that you have been in hopes that maybe history will reverse itself and make what you are saying happened be what actually happened.

 

Bobby, your entire argument is based on a false premise. Us calling you out isn't derailing the conversation. You can't handle being exposed, so you whine.

 

Bobby gonna Bobby

 

Trump should ask Congress for the world's tallest observation tower instead of a wall - build it in Austin I'd support it.

 

HE PROMISED THAT MEXICO WAS GOING TO PAY FOR THE WALL.