These parents failed. The father especially. Also a perfect example of why young progressives become old conservatives.
Jay, dig your heels in on this some more why don't you. Let's find some common ground ok? It is fine to have an opinion and I agree with you on the idea that people should have a right to make choices, but this is not what people are talking about. It is a good idea to step back and try to see things from the other side, because so far I have taken the time to understand your opinion and have pointed out clear flaws. If you ignore that, then that is your choice. But lying, let me tell you, is not a good way to live. Especially lying to yourself about what is before you. And sometimes we lie to ourselves to convince ourselves we are right, because it is hard to admit we are wrong. Be more objective about this and stop hiding behind this "do what you want" philosophy that no self respecting parent would engage in if it meant letting them make fools of themselves on TV, and engage in sexualized imagery and action. I also want to address some earlier things that you said and I think we can find common ground on this. A lot of my arguments apply to beauty pageants which I think you or someone else mentioned earlier. Kids don't need that sort of activity and they don't need parents thrusting them into that type of environment. It's more than likely a magnet for pedos anyway, so that is just more reason not to put your kid out there in situations like that.
What did I lie about though? I think it's just that some people here are calling Drag shows inherently sexual and Gay Pride Parades as something that kids shouldn't go to. I take issue with that because whenever LGBT people get together people think it's some sexual orgy going on or something. You mentioned him going to a pride parade that his parents shouldn't take him to because it would affect his identity? I'm sorry, that doesn't make sense to me. What in the world is so wrong with a pride parade? Did I lie about drag shows? Absolutely not. Do a 5 minute research on the subject. Please. They are not inherently sexual. Are dresses inherently sexual? Wigs? Makeup? I see a video about a little boy prancing around in a dress, wig, and makeup, and people are telling me that's wrong, it's sexual, that he shouldn't do it...but then where is the thread on child talent shows like the one I just showed? The girl is younger than him, wearing a dress, stockings, and makeup, prancing around...not sexual. Do you not see how that is hypocritical? I'm confused about what I lied about. Truly I am. I even cautioned multiple times about the parents... I defended this kids right to identify, whether his parents are exploiting him or not isn't relevant to his identity. Parents exploit their children for fame sometimes, it sucks, but it's a thing that happens to straight children too. Unless you can prove that his parents told him to do all of this when it's just as likely that they just rolled with what he was doing and probably have lost control of the situation entirely. You even say here that "Do what you want philosophy" as if that's what I'm arguing. No self-respecting parent would disregard their kids identity too. That was my entire thing. People are completely disregarding it and the very idea that someone can identify at 11...they can. Because again, puberty, science, you know, it can start at ages 9-14, he's 11. You can definitely identify as being gay at that age. It doesn't mean he's sexually active, this is the double standard. If someone said they were 11 and straight or that they weren't gay no one would say anything about that kid's self-identity being confused or misled. But there's a reason why sex ed, when it is taught, it usually starts in Middle school and not High School. Can you imagine a sex ed class in high school to 16 year olds? Yeah, they know about it then, especially with the internet. Now, you wanted to find common ground... the parents, we can find common ground there, but I mentioned that earlier in the thread a few times. The gay nightclub is a terrible look for them. I doubt that is the full story, but you can't have kids going to nightclubs for any reason. Even if it is the tamest of nightclubs, that's just irresponsible. But I've already casted doubts about the parents. But I'm not finding common ground on Drag Shows being sexual by nature (or Gay Pride Parades being a no children zone...) and especially not on the idea that his parents failed him because they allowed him to put on a dress and makeup. There's a lot of this "I'm fine with the LGBT+ community...but not when I see them." When you say you are fine with his right to choose his identity...but he can't wear makeup...what does that mean? Really? Do you see how I might read this chain of posts and go "Oh, you're really not that upset about the parents and are just triggered by a boy wearing a dress."
You do not understand the role of parents... come back when you figure that out and stop assuming everyone is hating on the child who is clearly the victim. It is not even the letting him dress up part. It is the show part, the flauting, the explotation. This kid has not hit puberty and could turn out straight and end up regreting all of this or have more psychological problems as well. This just is not how parents should guide their child. This is simply holier than thou progressive nonesense.
I cant believe the liberal posters defending this crap. ABC should also be ashamed for letting this kid roll around on their stage in a little skirt. What kind of people enjoy this stuff?
You're just wrong on this dude. Full stop. You call me a liar but you keep saying this despite the fact that puberty for boys is ages 9-14, something I've pointed out over and over and over again. Scientifically, you are wrong. Yet you keep saying that he hasn't when it is indeed possible that he has. You are also again...ignoring the kids expression. He's telling you he's not straight. Having him pretend he's straight until 18 isn't going to make him straight. No, you don't understand the role of parents. Parents are supposed to be supportive of gay children. The consequences of them not being so is literally deadly and ruins kids mentally. Again...you say it's not about letting him dress up the part...but he can't wear makeup and can't wear ladies clothing...what does that mean? Really? Do you see how I might read this chain of posts and go "Oh, you're really not that upset about the parents and are just triggered by a boy wearing a dress." Just be real with yourself. You're triggered by him wearing a dress. Yet, I'm the one acting holier than thou? You and some others (not everyone) have been trying to scold me this entire thread lol. I love how I showed a little 7 year old girl doing the same thing but no one responds to that. But yeah, definitely just about the boy's parents, no one is triggered by him wearing a dress and makeup. Also, there was no rolling on the stage lol, that's called a death drop. It's a dance move...but maybe dance is too sexual too for little boys. Let's just let the little girls do it, we can put them in dresses that come up to their waists and tights. That's cool.
If the dollar bills were being thrown at an actual little girl then people would be outraged. I dont think this is healthy for this little person in the long run.
That I fully agree with but what he did on the show wasn't that. But the issue of his parents taking him to a nightclub and the issue of them letting him wear dresses and makeup are two different things and right now it's very hard for me to discern what some people here are actually mad at.
I read about one line of you response and realized you are still arguing against a straw man and ignoring the key points here. And you even pointed it out earlier! I am sure that "Mommy Daddy, I want to go do a drag show at a gay bar!" isn't a normal expression of a child's sexual development. lol You are really off on this one and I don't think I can take you seriously. One day when your ego cools, and you have some self reflection, you can say hey I was really virtue signaling on that one because I need to feel like I am part of change. It is OK. Most people do that when they lack purpose.
No, I'm not arguing a strawman, you said that it was wrong that he was wearing makeup. You did say that. Want me to quote you? You've actually just strawmanned me...Where did I say or imply the following? "I am sure that "Mommy Daddy, I want to go do a drag show at a gay bar!" isn't a normal expression of a child's sexual development." Quote me on where I said it was okay for him to go to a gay bar. Very dishonest of you. I mean, not that you'd know much about sexual development of children anyways, displayed by you not understanding how puberty works. It's also super ironic that a self-admitted troll can't take me seriously and that you claim I am virtue signaling when this entire thread is virtue signaling.
Wearing make up is used to bring out attractive features. Period. Make up in that way is sexualizing the child. I still stand by that and no, kids don't need that; Girls or boys. Now, when you do it with a boy you are confusing him at a very young age beyond what is simply accepting your kid as someone who wants to be a girl. I am not strawmanning you. You are towing the traditional progressive line, which is let people be themselves, to an extreme. And no one is saying there is a problem with the basic idea, But let's look at how the parents are going about this. First, they don't set boundaries, second, and most disturbing, they took this kid to a gay bar to perform a show of a sexual nature. These perverts should be strewn up in ropes and dumped into the sea like our ancestors would have done. This activity was enough to warrant questioning, but it doesn't stop there. The foundation, and the TV spots, are all creating an unhealthy environment for the kid. This is just going to further mess the kid up in the head. And yes he needs counseling, and not just because choosing to live life as another sex/gender/or whatever you feel like calling it tomorrow. Putting a kid on stage to do a drag show is tantamount to sexual abuse. Stop defending it and pretending it is OK. It is the fact that you are turning your head and lying to yourself that it isn't abuse, is why you are a liar. You lie to yourself.
Well, I just hope you remain consistent with the take that makeup is sexualizing a kid no matter their gender. You have a big war on your hands, and I mean this sincerely, if this is your belief then you should know toy companies literally sell makeup to little girls. I hope when you see a little girl wearing makeup that you are just as outraged about her being sexualized. Make sure to go after her parents and call them perverts. Again, you have a big war on your hands. I don't say this mockingly. Also... makeup isn't only used to bring out attractive features, it's used to change/alter appearances too. Everyone on TV wears makeup (outside of athletes and such I guess), to hide blemishes and lines and such. Drag performers use it sometimes more like a mask. The purpose of drag isn't to be attractive. It's simply to mimic the opposite sex in an entertaining way in front of a crowd. Also, you said something about accepting him as someone who wants to be a girl. See, Drag Queens aren't transsexuals. Some of them aren't even gay. They are just dudes (or women) who mimic the opposite sex on stage and do performance art. That's all. Also, what boundaries do you want the parents to set? Forget about the gay bar thing, because we agree on that. Where is the line that was crossed where you became triggered? If it is dresses and wigs then we will just have to disagree eternally. I don't think being gay is an 'extreme'. Neither do I think they are confusing the boy by letting him be what he wants to be. Don't say that I am saying that he should be able to do WHATEVER he wants, that is not my stance, and it wasn't said by me anywhere in this thread. My stance is that he can be openly gay. That's my stance. Attack that stance if you want. My stance is not that he can be a drug dealer or stripper. It is only that he can be openly gay, that he can wear dresses, wigs, and dress like a little girl, that he can express himself as gay. I've already said the parents were terrible and that there is no excuse for taking him to a gay nightclub or bar or whatever that place was. For them to post that on their instagram too is very troubling in itself. It's like someone posting evidence of the person they murdered and acting like it's cool. My stance was never about that and how they seem to be exploiting Desmond here... You can't say it's okay for him to be gay but then he can't do anything to express himself as gay. This is basically saying "Stay in the closet." You tell me you're open-minded but are you really? I'm telling you what Drag is, and you continue to act like it's grown men stripping on stage... (although it CAN be) drag is karaoke/comedy/performance in costumes of the opposite sex, the performers even tend to call them costumes. It's not inherently sexual, no matter how much you want to lie about it and say it is. It's not by nature sexual, like say stripping. Just because you saw pictures of very sexualized drag or whatever doesn't mean that all drag is sexualized. You can't criticize things you know little or nothing about. It's okay to know nothing about it but to sit on a high horse and tell people it's this or that when you don't even know basic things about it.../ Anyways...anything can be sexualized. Even f'n football, lingerie leagues and all that. Just because something can be sexualized doesn't mean that it is inherently sexual.
I was addressing you and sincerely so, but you're not here for discussion, just to Own Dem Libs. You do move the goalposts so frequently that I can see how you'd confuse yourself. Most of your replies back has been laced with insults (but I'm being holier than thou...) Pro-tip, If you're going to throw insults at people then make sure you spell words correctly. Good luck with your anti-makeup crusades though.
My trademark move is calling people out on their **** in a sarcastic and/or a-holish way. Let's look at something called logical deduction: A) Video posts featuring lesbian/gay person are getting an absurd dislike to like ratio implying B) that most people on youtube disapprove of them (i.e. homophobic) Unless: C) Explanation is given that it is bots that are drumming up the dislikes as an attack against the LGBTQ community You mock number 2 as an explanation and discredit it. So to reduce this to a logic equation: 1) A implies B unless C 2) @dachuda86 says C is invalid Therefore Dachuda is saying A implies B
in general, is it any different than a dad making his kid play sports? not talking about profiting off kids, but how they are influenced. seems you just have an issue with what kids are being influenced by rather than the influence itself.
This is a really good point, about the influencing thing. Sometimes too it is hard to tell where the influence ends and where the passion that the kid has for that hobby begins. Actually Desmond here reminds me a lot of Maddie Ziegler, the girl that dances with Sia...since 12... In fact, her case could be worse. Her mom pushed her into dancing entirely and she's even toured with Sia a few times? She's definitely been sexualized, she's been dancing in one piece outfits on stage. Not sure if anyone has ever thrown money at her but she's making money all the same for it. The only difference between the two is that it is more socially acceptable for Maddie.
