Are we going to ignore that Harden's MidRange TurnAround Jumper is unstoppable?

Math huh... what i this "math" you speak of
... please explain...

yes 3 pointers are worth more than 2-pointers.
But that doesn't mean he should ignore a wide open 2 pointer just to run back and miss a 3. I have on problem with him taking as many 3 pointers as he wants, but i see him giving up the 2 to miss a 3 point attempt.


He needs the be more aware of the situation.

 

I seriously can’t believe it’s almost 2019 and people are still arguing against our offense.

We are the team that pushed the league into waking up and realizing how dumb they are playing.

We have taken middling to above average offensive talent and posted the best offense in nba history.

We have even less offensive talent this year and we are most likely gonna finish top 3 at worst.

 

But you take threes after defense is broke and someone has to help. For that to happen you need threat off the dribble and here defenses pick the poison - they can give up driving lanes or midrange. Kyle Korver wont be a go to guy because he cant do nothing but 3s. Thompson cant be go to guy because he cant dribble. Harden is unstopable because he can do everything. MJ was unstopable because he was such a threat drivin that he could pull up anytime and hit mid j. Its a lot more complex than just 3s and layups, if it was that easy pringels would have 3peat by now and popovich would be ringless

 

the discussion is about Harden tho, not the team as a whole

as a team, yes, primarily layups and threes, but Harden doesn’t need to restrict himself to just layups and threes at all times

if he has a wide open midrange shot, he should take it...if he has a smaller defender on him, maybe try a few possessions at the mid-post...in clutch time, maybe go to his midrange game if the threes aren’t falling...I don’t think Harden needs to completely abandon the midrange...no one is saying he needs to start launching 5+ midrangers a game

it doesn’t hurt to mix it up at times and diversify your game

 

It's a sound strategy but it isn't magic. It doesn't guarentee you a title. You still have to have talent and out perform the other teams to win a title.

We have both Harden and CP3 who can create mismatches and pass. That's the hard part and we've got it covered twice over.

The Rockets strategy is to take efficient shots. For most players that's FTs, layups and 3s. If you can generate other type of efficient shots then that's fine too. If you can't create any type of efficient shots then you've got problems and won't be very good.

The one thing that is consistent is that no team in the league can be very efficient from midrange.

 

Go Harden, Go!

 

Yeah but what i was saying is that open three is a product of offense. Getting the shot you want and making it fairly often is a desired skill and paper inefficient superstars are still superstars that will get buckets under pressure of g7. We missed 27 threes straight bro, averages dont mean nothing in those moments when you just have to go and get it. I think Morey understands that thats why he went for Melo for years

 

LOL what game 7? Ingles and the Jazz pretty much destroyed your boy Melo's career

 

Again, nothing works every single time. There's always exceptions. But you dont plan for those exceptions to occur.

You go with the approach that gives you the best chance.

 

those are Kobe numbers and it's still better than shooting 0% from the 3 in an elimination game

 

Three pointers are boring

 

I get the feeling people aren't reading through all the posts on this subject so I'll put this out again. Daryl Morey discussed diversity of offense, CP3, and the mid range shot in an interview last year:

"We did get one of the best mid-range shooters of all time," Rockets GM Daryl Morey told the Houston Chronicle in September. "I think it's good. It helps diversify the offense.

"I like scoring more points than the other team. You get more if you shoot threes or layups. It doesn't mean we're going to keep Chris, one of the best mid-range shooters ever, from shooting them."

He is saying don't build your offense around midrange shots because they aren't as efficient as threes and layups. He clarifies that by saying not to eliminate midrange shots entirely though because you want some diversity in your offense, especially if you have CP3 taking those shots.

So most of the back and forth on this thread has already been answered directly by the genius himself. The question is not "should any Rockets players shoot midrange shots". That has already been answered by Morey. The answer is 100% yes. He thinks it's good. It helps diversify the offense.

The question is "should Harden mix in midrange shots"? I can't find a quote for him directly answering that question. I would bet that if he's ok with CP3 doing it to keep defenses guessing, I think he is probably ok with Harden doing it. Harden rarely does it though- so has he been told not to?

I'd really like to know who is making that decision. My guess is it's Harden making the call.

Hopefully someone can find where Morey or Harden addresses it directly so we don't have to guess anymore. ​

 

We all agree on the first part, midrange is fine if you're good at it. The point here is that Harden isn't good at it.

 

hes not good at perimeter d either still gotta play it

 

MJ was the progenitor of Moreyball even without analytics knowledge he knew the way to win was drives and 3 pt shot. That's why guys like Kukoc, Kerr and Paxson were on the team, they certainly weren't taking mid range twos. And that's why even though he was a guard MJ learned how to score in the post especially later in his career when he won his 6 rings.

Look, if the mid range shot is good and all how come the entire NBA is decreasing mid range shots? The Rox were the first ones to ditch that god awful shot, now that the rest of the league has caught up you want to be below the curve and start bringing those back? LOL!

 

I think we were around 5 minutes left on 4Q, up by2. Then we did our usual slow offense, and we got Harden on Ingles at the right low post. We scored. Is that the turnaround midrange? we got up by 4

Right after a Rubio 3.

 

James with a clutch post-up mid-range stepback again last night.

It's coming y'all.

 

You just dont understand the point that im making. 1.Layups/dunks 2.Threes 3. Midrange - but in let's say clutch situation when you just have to score - forced midrange is better than forced three. And to generate open Threes You need to have midrange threat remember the spurs series or even g6 and g7 of gsw series, they just clog up the paint and didnt help on drives with midrange wide open(no cp to capitalize on that)

 

And I'm telling you there is no "midrange threat" because good defenses leave the mid range wide open on purpose. And they do this because studies have shown the more mid range shots a team takes the higher the chance they lose.

Please explain how the mid range threat enables the three pt threat...if anything it hampers the 3 pt threat because the mid range area is just a step away from the 3 pt line, that means the defender can defend the 3 pt line easily. This is why nobody in history has said Melo or Rudy Gay are great spacers, they are space eaters they clog the mid range area making it harder for everyone else to score.

Not sure how mid range would have helped us against the Spurs like said just because the mid range is open doesn't mean we win. Take Harden for example, he is 42% mid range shooter. If everybody on the team is as good as Harden they would shoot 42% on long twos which means they lose the series anyway. And guys like Ariza and Ryan Scrubberson aren't better mid range shooters than Harden they are worse.

 

It's pretty simple actually. You can't leave decent player open on the midrange because that's like a layup to nba level player. Let me get this straight we aren't talking about 1 on 1 carmelo type of offense. We are talking that CP pull up things. It gives defenses a choice to make, they have to collapse somehow and it opens up either dunk or 3. When you go by 3pointers agenda you end up like our bad losses - pounding the ball at the 3 and shooting through defenders. And contested 3 isnt better than contested 2 from ft area because i can bet even Harden would make a lot more of those 2pointers.

When it's 2mins to go and the score is even you don't go with Ariza 3 but your best players move. If your best player is great 3point shooter - they will step up to him on the 3pt line. They will rotate on the drive. But you still have the midrange(FT area) pull up. That's what CP capitalizes on, lately i seen Doncic do that too (but he floats that midrange, he is way bigger than CP)