bruh... I have almost exclusively critiqued dems on here as of late lol. You are assuming I am a partisan. The left and right are forever shifting terms I do not subscribe to. Anyways keep up the pearl clutching. If you want people to pretend Bush was an angel, turn on CNN or FOX.
Politicians... lie? The more insane thing is that people on this forum believe them and think they are not highly practised at manipulation.
I am not saying you specifically. But in general (people in this thread) read this. How much do you care that this country killed these civilians? These issues are complicated. But imagine the scene in which this happened. Most likely women, children, grandmothers, and grandfathers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiriyah_shelter_bombing
That I would agree with. Bush only really had the one...and he only 'lied' on that one to get other stuff through Congress...ie, Congress essentially made the 'lie' happen. IThat doesn't mean it was a 'lie' when he said it, but certainly was a campaign promise that was later broken. View that how you will, and he certainly paid the price for it. But, in comparison...which politician 'lied' less than he did?
Good to hear. Perhaps then you could also stop casting aspersons my way? FWiW...I haven't watched, but if CNN is portraying Bush as an angel, that just points to how he was viewed across the aisle, not just on the right. I do still think you would have to work hard to find a less evil person in politics, or perhaps anywhere.
I read it and agree that the issue of when war or military intervention is justified is complicated. I assume that the issue of what structures to target in a war or military intervention is also very complicated. (I only say assume because I don't know if there are bright lines or policies in place that, given perfect information, mandate certain decisions over others as opposed to allowing for judgment.) I obviously think it is horrible that we apparently targeted what we now know was a civilian shelter. What I don't know (personally or from this article) is: 1) whether the decision makers knew this was a civilian shelter or made a terrible mistake ignoring information that would point that way (seems much more likely); and 2) I don't see any indication that the President was involved in that level of decision making (such as individual targets -- seems very unlikely) so I don't think that rests with President Bush. If your broader point was that our participation (or leading the effort) resulted in suffering for Iraq, I agree and believe that to be true about any war.
I understand that you want to stick to talking points rather than anything in-depth. I won't push you on it.
The most Just War ever is still messy. That's why some people never support war under any circumstances and pacifism exists.
The thought of a former President dying in jail... how would that funeral be handled did cross my mind for a brief moment. Laughed it off as silly, but interesting still.
In Vegas or an underwater Atlantic City maybe. Come see the Classiest Dead Guy Celebration in the tri state area. No Refunds.
Every president and senator that has died in my lifetime was treated to revisionist obeisance and Trump will be no exception, no matter what he does until he dies. He will be called an outspoken statesman, and a firebrand, and a patriot, and God only knows what else, and the same pundits who loudly denounce him as a treasonous b*stard today will be the loudest in proclaiming so. Even now, the people that once screamed that George W Bush was the worst president that ever lived, and a war criminal, and still have the "not my president" t-shirts in their closets are the first to coo every time he makes a staged television appearance designed to repudiate his image. He will be treated to nothing less regal than his father was when his time comes. No one should be shocked by this. This is the culture of an empire in decline.
Trump will certainly get some whitewashing as all celebrities do when they die, but it won't be nearly as much as past presidents. His whitewashing will be saying his past was "complicated"
If things continue as they are now that will happen. If the report on Trump is damning the extent of the whitewashing will be minimalized. Nixon had some but even that didn't last. His ills are brought up regularly.
I don't really think so, look at how people look back on Clinton, a president who was absolutely guilty of obstruction of justice and perjury. The witch hunt would have to come up with something significantly more damning than that if they want to even make a dent....and even then, it's not a guarantee that he won't still win re-election.
Without knowing the final findings of the investigation nobody knows what they will be. Clinton did not work with foreign adversaries to undermine and defraud our democracy. So while the subject of the Clinton investigation doesn't excuse his perjury and obstruction, it is taken into account in people's memories. If the investigation shows clear proof that Trump or his campaign worked in collusion with foreign adversaries in an attempt to undermine our democracy, and there is additional evidence of obstruction, money laundering, business deals, with that foreign power, then the whitewashing won't be so prevalent.
