1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Not a Dodge] Caravan

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Astrodome, Oct 24, 2018.

?

What are your thoughts on the Honduran caravan?

  1. Let them all in

    3.4%
  2. Let the non criminals in

    6.8%
  3. Let all but the middle easterners in

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Thoughts and prayers

    15.3%
  5. Case by case admittance

    57.6%
  6. Turn them around at our border

    15.3%
  7. Funded by the dems

    6.8%
  8. Funded by the repugs

    5.1%
  9. Hopefully our border agents dont catch diseases

    6.8%
  10. Build a wall/call in national guard

    23.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,782
    Likes Received:
    20,441
    I thought not allowing them to stay in the United States would do it. Perhaps make the precise requirements more publicized, along with how few asylum seekers are actually granted asylum?
     
  2. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    18,656
    Likes Received:
    11,686
    The caravan has been offered safe haven in Mexico and very few are taking it. What do they need asylum from when they are being offered jobs, healthcare, schooling, etc... ?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ugee-plan-us-border-immigration-a8604411.html

    I would say let none of these people in who have rejected Mexico's offer. They can't possibly need asylum.

    As far as reducing the incentive to claim asylum; there is no need to worry about it.
     
  3. Jugdish

    Jugdish Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,066
    Likes Received:
    9,567
    Birtherism
    Wanting the Central Park Five executed despite their exoneration
    Systematically denying black people apartments to rent
    Promoting nationalism
    Wanting only guys with yarmulkes to handle his money
    Pocahontas
    Asking a black reporter to set up a meeting with the Congressional Black Caucus
    Rapists and murderers
    Not denouncing support from David Duke
    Both sides
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  4. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,325
    Likes Received:
    3,586
    Looks like a bunch of exagerations and assumptions. Also nationalism isn't racist fyi. Ethnonationalism is a seperate thing.
    Also he assumed the natives Europeans encountered were the original people. What about all the tribal wars that saw territories change? No group was likely some innocent group that got their first anyway. The noble savage myth is a common falsity used to bash America.
     
  5. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,782
    Likes Received:
    20,441
    You forgot that a Federal Judge can't do his job because of his ethnic heritage.
     
    mdrowe00 likes this.
  6. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,782
    Likes Received:
    20,441
    Denying apartments to minorities isn't an exaggeration or assumption.

    Even if Trump isn't one, all of the things listed were things and acts that a racist would do, so Trump behaves like one. Whether he is or isn't, doesn't matter. What matters is that he behaves like one.
     
    mdrowe00 likes this.
  7. durvasa

    durvasa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,892
    Likes Received:
    16,449
    I don’t think that would do it, if you’re allowing them entry and also not keeping them in custody while their asylum request is being processed.
     
  8. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    12,961
    Likes Received:
    14,904
    These folks probably had no idea what the rules were when they embarked on their trip. They were fed some BS by whoever is funding this adventure.
     
  9. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,782
    Likes Received:
    20,441
    But we have seen statistics that most return for their hearings. If they are leaving not knowing the rules and believe they will get in, publicizing the reals might help them rethink their situation.
     
  10. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    68,507
    Likes Received:
    31,980
    Even if those numbers are true, there's no reason to think they wouldn't change as many more seek to exploit the loophole in the law that would allow anyone to merely claim asylum and be automatically immediately allowed in the country.
     
  11. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,782
    Likes Received:
    20,441
    I don't oppose changing the rules in some humanitarian way. However, you don't treat people differently based on legislation which hasn't even been proposed yet.
     
    JuanValdez likes this.
  12. asianballa23

    asianballa23 Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    3,273
    Likes Received:
    658

    yep, that's why it's a dead giveaway that they're here for ECONOMICAL REASON, not asylum.
     
    Cohete Rojo likes this.
  13. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    68,507
    Likes Received:
    31,980
    I don't think there's a problem with putting a halt to a non essential system when it is discovered to be broken and leaving it shut down until a fix can be legislated. If anything it would encourage those who would write that legislation to not drag their feet with a fix. If you have a pipe that burst in your house, you shut the water off until you fix it. The loophole where you allow just anyone into the country that claims to be seeking asylum is similar IMO. No one wants to harm legitimate asylum seekers, but when you are having thousands upon thousands of people who aren't legitimate asylum seekers attempting to exploit that loophole you have to do something about it.

    I figured I'd add a chart to show how the problem is increasing

    [​IMG]
     
  14. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,782
    Likes Received:
    20,441
    Even if I agreed to the temporary halt (which I don't) there is no way it should be implemented immediately. It should be said that as of 'January 15th 2019 (or whatever future date) we are putting a temporary halt to Asylum in the United States.

    I don't agree with that because you don't screw over the tens of thousands of legitimate asylum seekers who are at danger if they must go back to their homes.
     
  15. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    68,507
    Likes Received:
    31,980
    Almost none of those in the caravan are legitimate asylum seekers. "My country is poor and corrupt" is not a legitimate basis for asylum. The caravan is full of economic migrants attempting to exploit the system, I'm sure in the "tens of thousands" there are some legitimate asylum seekers, but I'd bet they are the extreme minority.
     
  16. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,782
    Likes Received:
    20,441
    I was referring to the tens of thousands on the graph that YOU provided.

    You haven't reviewed the cases of all or most likely any of those in the caravan. You aren't qualified to say if they are or aren't legitimate asylum seekers. If if they aren't then they won't get asylum.
     
  17. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    68,507
    Likes Received:
    31,980
    Oh, I wasn't talking about not continuing to process the claims that have already come in, I was talking about halting new claims until a fix could be found. Those hundreds of thousands are already in the country and waiting for hearings and a decision. Halting new applications would also allow them to catch up and get through the backlog which is now well over 300k and increasing by the day.
     
  18. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    35,052
    Likes Received:
    15,227
    Finally a legit question. Usually objections revolve around what people think other people should do, like that matters. We have a system in which people can apply for asylum. I expect most applicants will be denied and deported and I'm fine with that because they had their due process. As far as abuse of the asylum system hurting Americans, I think the review process is enough to protect us, so it's not something to worry about in that regard. It would make sense to reduce incentives to apply for people who have no shot just to keep the burden on the system down. I think FB's suggestion is good, be more clear and prominent about what you'll need to show to prove your case and what are your chances for success. The money you spend on marketing probably gets saved in administration.

    But I don't think that's Trump's aim. He doesn't want to reduce the burden of bad claims. He wants to reduce the number of valid claims. He does as much as he can to dissuade this entire caravan and all other applicants -- with good claims and bad -- to go back home and not even apply. That undermines the will we'd previously expressed in creating an asylum process to rescue the oppressed. If we decide we're no longer protectors of the oppressed, that's fine, we can do that, but we should do it through the legislative process which ensures that there is some sufficient consensus to change our ways.

    That's not really a loophole. A loophole is a chink in the process that comes about because the policymakers never thought about it one way or the other. When we made the asylum process, they thought explicitly about where applicants would stay. There are different rules for if you're inside the country applying, or applying from abroad. Anyway, maybe its bad policy to let them wait inside the country, but it's not a loophole, it's a feature.
     
    adoo and durvasa like this.
  19. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    68,507
    Likes Received:
    31,980
    What I meant by a loophole was that if you are an economic migrant for example, if you go to a border crossing, they won't let you in without going through the long process of migration to the US. If you instead just tell them you are an asylum seeker, you immediately gain access to the country even if there is absolutely no chance that your asylum claim is legitimate or would stand up to scrutiny. That's why I was calling it a "loophole" even though, yes, it's a feature of the system. When people weren't using the features of the asylum system as a back door for non legitimate asylum seekers and illegal immigrants who get caught on their way into the country to gain entry to the country rather than being deported, it worked perfectly fine but now that they are using it that way, it desperately needs to be changed.
     
  20. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,325
    Likes Received:
    3,586
    i see a lot of plausible deniability here... not really solid proof. common... just because you think he behaves like one.. please..
     

Share This Page