Walter E. Williams: AA civil rights leader speaks on biggest problem plaguing AA community

I asked what is the path forward in your view and you gave me this:

To distill, if we stop coddling black people, stop criticizing police, stop glamorizing Kap, stop blaming white people, then everything will get better? Is that what you're selling? Because I got to say, I'm a little skeptical that that's going to work.

 

What is Colin's IQ? Do you know?

Like who? Any proof to back this up?

 

If I were desperate for money and attention I'd pretend to be a latino Turmp lover too.

You can't hate the game.

 

Yea like I said, out of touch.

I’ve been black for a little over 30 years at this point and the statements about all AAs rallying around criminals simply isn’t true. No matter how much you see it on tv or poor whites want to believe it.

Contrary to popular belief, black people are multifaceted.

 

The issue isn't really about "blacks being criminals" or telling them to not commit crime, it's about a cultural environment that breeds them, every group has their bad eggs, but when they're allowed to spread and corrupt others, that's when it goes pear shaped. When you have kids growing up in crime/gang ridden areas, that it seeps into their lives is inevitable, this is a human nature thing, and you end up with it just propagating itself, in the same way as i could pull an 8yo white kid out of suburban america, plonk him in 1933 germany and by the time he's 18, good chance he's a nazi, most people will be molded to their environment. People like Walter Willams are contrarians, having a much higher chance of escaping pervasive environments is a product of their personality types, but people who feel comfortable fitting out are uncommon (and society would collapse entirely if they were the majority, lol).

It needs the criminal element to be severed from the vast majority of law abiding people, so it can't continue the cycle, it needs to start with a heavy handed law enforcement approach (in a nation that has wealth, as the evidence bares out, it's the crime that causes poverty, not poverty that causes crime, this causality is important), the policing needs to be mostly from amongst themselves though, anything else would be doomed to failure.

The law enforcement would be an imposition, but so is crime, it's a trade off of the two, and high crime creates a high imposition, law enforcement needs to be pushed upwards to combat that, but after crime reduces, the law enforcement also needs to, the purpose here is so that the imposition matches all the way down, the purpose isn't to punish crime, its to make things better for those who aren't (in practical terms, it probably needs a republican to institute it, and then when it becomes manageable, a democrat, because republicans seem to act as though the reduction is evidence for maintaining or even increasing law enforcement, and if the law enforcement becomes more of an encroachment on their lives than the crime, the concerns about over policing are legitimate, this isn't a race thing either, the left/right pursue much the same policy directions in crime ridden areas of racially homogeneous nations), whilst the democrats won't take the starting steps to begin with), similar to NY's trajectory tbh, this is at least a 20 year project.

Once the crime is under control, the economy will increase, businesses can grow, this is definitely where the government should be involved with assistance, particularly to assist small businesses so as to capture the wealth generated within the community itself, this is one of the unusual things i find with conservatives, they say that the welfare policies are strongly responsible for much of the current issues, and there's a lot of evidence to support that notion, but then they seem to act like the government should be absolved of that responsibility in regards to addressing it (the government ****ed it up, but you're on your own to fix it? which seems to be a message that applies to everyone but billionaires these days, i wonder why populism is taking hold....). Yes, they are in many ways responsible for their own issues, and the government did its part in making things worse, and improvements have to work the same way, with them being primarily responsible and government doing its part.

So in broad terms? tackle it like its a human problem, and not a race problem.

 

Oh, the good old "My point is genius, if you are smart, like me, then you'd understand. If you're dumb then you don't understand." Bobbythegreat would be proud kiddo.

So, I guess Oprah, Cornel West, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Michael Eric Dyson, are all just stupid then and not educated.

Very hard to have a discussion with someone that believes that because they will write off anything you say. I'm not saying Walter Williams is stupid, I just don't agree at all with his point.

As for your video, he's talking about role models using their platforms on issues. He brought up Beyonce, how is Beyonce a bad role model? Can you tell me one time Beyonce advocated for using drugs, killing people, or gang banging?

Are there bad black role models? Of course. But is every white celeb a good role model? I honestly don't think that's his point, it doesn't even seem like most of this lecture is about race/crime at all?

Role models ain't the reason. There are many that are bad and many that are good, at the end of the day they are all people and so they are all flawed.

If your point is good parenting leads to good children...well duh. But you can't make 'Good Parenting' a government program. All you can do is improve the environment so that it is stable and secure enough so that people can focus on raising their kids.

 

The gentleman you initially quoted denied that by suggesting that all, or most, AAs identify with criminals. It simply isn’t true. That narrative is pushed because quite a few lower middle class to poor whites, but not all of them, want to believe that.

There isn’t a debate to be had @Senator, the initial premise of that gentleman’s argument is categorically false. Period.

Edit: Me being black means I see things in the larger black community that others typically don’t see. We don’t generally show our true selves to the world to avoid sweeping generalizations and discriminate

 

Hey, you know who the best role models are to children? FATHERS. No, you won't see them hanging on walls, but they influence a child much more than celebrities. That is of course, if they are around. When they aren't, then you see children gravitate to people who will almost always lead them astray because children are terrible judges of character and decision makers. At times those people are celebs, who are mostly wicked past certain levels, and at other times to the shady dudes in their neighborhoods.






It is frustrating reading these discussions because one side emphasizes the possibilities blacks have within them to fix their problems, while the other either doesn't provide any solutions or emphasizes the things whites can do to help black Americans with their problems. And I'm like, yes, blacks - specifically, black men -, have it within them to lead them to success even in the confines of a society ruled by whites who will naturally favor whites. Blacks and Hispanics need to look to the Asians as the model group in this society. They don't ask whites for jackshit, they couldn't care less to participate in politics, and they're still the most successful group in this country.

 

There hasn't been a single thing @Senator or anyone else in this thread suggested that would help anyone on the street without a father. Not a single thing, it's all scolding, that's all it is.

Meanwhile, quote one person in this thread that said "Whites need to help blacks and give them stuff," I've not seen that argument once in this entire thread. If you're talking about liberal policies then these are political ideas that exist beyond the spectrum of race. It's not like Free Healthcare and raising the minimum wage would only affect black people.

Meanwhile, you are pushing out the 'Model Minority' trope, which hurts Asians more than anyone else and something, from what I understand, a lot of Asian people get annoyed by.

You are also flat out wrong about that, Minorities, period, no matter their race, are the most successful group in this country.

There is no 'black' culture to fix, because there is no overwhelming monolithic black culture that every black person falls into.

There is no way to legislate good parenting or forcing dads to stay in kids lives without also restricting basic freedoms.

I see no suggestions or solutions in your post but more of the usual "Be more like Asians," and scolding. Where is the solution here? Saying over and over again that if you have a good father and mother and stable household is about as obvious as saying you need a good QB to win. As we know, finding a good QB is easier said than done.

I don't claim to have a magic pill, but I don't use this issue to ignore and excuse injustice against minorities like so many do. And ignoring the injustice is like ignoring a bad Oline. Sure, the QB may suck or be decent, but the bad oline doesn't help issues.

Here, the injustice in law enforcement and our legal system does not help...the fact that so many blacks are unjustly imprisioned for example is taking fathers off the street, so that IS directly going into the issue....and it's not asking white people for anything but to allow and help maintain a fair and equal system.

 

Just correcting myself, I meant immigrants, not minorities.

 

What is anyone asking whites? Don't violate our civil rights, don't steal money from our communities, don't use predatory tactics on our communities, don't flood our neighborhoods with drugs, don't bullshit us about how you try to disenfranchise us, don't whitewash history, don't put up statues of white supremacists? Please, elaborate.

 

Saying they just need to buck up and pull themselves up by their bootstraps is like telling a clinically depressed person they just need to perk up, or telling someone with PTSD that they just need to get over it and relax.

I'm sure it feels like that's all there is to it to you.

 

Accountability. That's from the OP. It all starts there. Recognizing that the problem and solution lies within the community. Calling that scolding is immature.

This isn't the only discussion on this subject I've read on CF. As an example, in others, you and others advocate equal treatment in the judicial system. You know who runs the judicial system? White people. In effect, when asking for equal treatment - no matter how correct and moral that is - you are asking white people to do something for black people. That is the truth. An ugly truth because ideally something like that would be a given. But this is not a perfect world, in this world, people tend to look out for those who are like them first and foremost.

What? Do you mean immigrants? If so, I agree.

You did mean immigrants. And this is because immigrants come here with a culture. The ones with the strongest cultures are unsurprisingly the most successful in this country.

In a sense, you are correct. There is a lack of culture in the black community that leads to an overwhelming confusion and chaos in the home. This is what will happen to all minority groups if they lose their culture.

This is why black men just have to man up and better plot out their lives. A big but not insurmountable problem is that those lessons are typically taught to boys by their fathers.

EDIT: I'd like to add that ideally you want children to be raised in a home with both parents, but like you said just being in a child's life and being able to provide and teach a child as their father is almost as impactful.

In the mirror. Specifically, the man in the mirror.

The QB is a great analogy to the black man in this discussion.

Yes you do, it's just hard to swallow. The best quarterbacks don't need great o-lines.

It is though.

All of that. Yes. This is dirty, but in asking for justice you are essentially asking whites for something because they are the ones that dole out justice in this society. So instead, don't give them a chance to violate you, start your own businesses so money stays in the community, educate yourselves against predatory tactics, say no to drugs, etc. A few generations of that, and you'll have enough black police officers, judges, business owners, educators, and politicians that you won't need to ask anyone for anything.

Are you making an analogy here???