I appreciate you showing clips that you believe back your claim. I just disagree. Don Lemon clearly stated what Anti-fa is and why they were founded. Cuomo also said that it was wrong to use violence but stated they weren't equivalent with Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists which is also correct. Dyson also was correct in pointing out that the violence is not equivalent and the two groups aren't equal.
Each one of them qualified their words with yes violence is wrong but.... That is simply them trying to maintain what they think their idea of the moral high ground is. They were defending Antifa and justifying their stance with whataboutism. But, but the other evil groups are worse. SMH.
No, they weren't. They were saying violence is wrong, but Anti-fa isn't as bad as the neo-Nazis and White Supremacists. That is exactly what they should be doing. We all should. The two aren't equal.
Why do you think people on the left including those in the left mainstream media are so quick to say things like, “But they are not as bad as something else” even when people like me didn’t try to make any equivalency in the first place. This thread is a perfect example of that. I pointed out the evils of Antifa and what they did at Tucker’s house. I never tried to compare what they did or their impact to anything else and yet instead of just joining me in condemning them you and others like the mainstream left media jump in and wave the moral flag by saying “they are not as bad as XX”. Why do you think you guys feel the need to do that? Do you criticize people who call Charles Mason evil or jump to the comment of “But he is not as evil as Hitler”. Why is that? There is only one reason for that, and that is because you and they have no desire to defend Charles Manson but a very real need to defend Antifa.
I think many people do it because Antifa is a counter to those groups. As in they do not exist if it weren't for the existing fascist/racist groups in the first place. In fact, Richard Spencer came out and said that Antifa is the reason he can't do speeches anymore. He's the guy they famously punched. Although other than that incident all they really did was counter protest. I wish they'd just stick to counter-protesting You should also look at the history of Antifa in Europe post WW2.
Given your point of center is extreme right-wing, he is definitely is right leaning on the full spectrum. Pouhe was too. Not nearly as extreme right as yourself though, that's true
They were protesting AND some of them were vandalizing his house. Your distortion of basic facts shows your bias. To compare them to cross burnings just goes to show how far off the deep end you have gone. Antifa is not the equivalent of nazis. Those who are doing something wrong should be held accountable, but they are not a hate group. They did not threaten anyone with violence. Now you are not condemning those on the right who are threatening violence against the left - many after Tucker Carlson has encouraged them by firing them up against certain targets. So that tells me you are a sympathizer to white nationalists. You need to stop supporting hate and trying to paint Antifa as this neo-nazi party. Antifa is not good. They are a bad skin reaction to the disease of white nationalism that is rising in this country because of people like Tucker Carlson. Yes, condemn Antifa for what they did to him. But also condemn Tucker Carlson for spreading hate.
These are his exact words and in the video Crash posted - you should watch it since clearly you didn't That contradicts what you are saying. White nationalists have been saying that diversity is wrong - that people with different values need to be separated as part of their platform. And this statement is clear as day that he is suggesting that people with different values or who don't understand one another can not live or work together. That is the same propaganda that's been used by white nationalists for a 100 years - I know that because I study history and their tactics. I suggest you open your eyes and do the same instead of just assuming they innocently asking a simple question.
You didn't watch the whole video - he said the military and marriage are two places that diversity has failed. When you can start getting the basic facts of what he is saying right, then we can have a conversation. Also, his question about people living side by side was a nod to white nationalists and nothing more.
Because Trump did try and make the equivalency. You are saying you didn't try to make the equivalency but you have said that you want people to condemn them and then you would join in condemning the neo-Nazis and those groups. So it seemed like you were trying to make them equally as bad.
When you have a group of people that are willing to use violence to promote a particular social or political agenda, the name or organization almost ceases to be ancillary to that group of people. By that I mean the anarchists within Antifa in the US were going to engage in terrorism regardless if it was as part of a group called Antifa, BAMN or something else entirely. The real irony with Antifa is that they are what they claim to be fighting against; they are fascists in every since of the word.
Once again, I did not bring Trump, the neo-nazis, white supremists or any other hate group into this discussion. Additionally I made that offer for us to join in condemning all hate groups long after they had been inserted into this thread. It should be noted that you rejected the notion of condemning Antifa without qualifiers. Using qualifiers when condemning something is disingenuous at best. The truth is that I have condemned thsose other hate groups many times as well as Trump without qualifiers. To say one group is any worse than the other is largly about where you are standing at the time and certainly subjective. Understand we are not talking about the KKK here which is unquestionably the single worst hate group in the history of our nation. I can actually easily argue that Antifa is just as bad and certainly more dangerous today than the neo-nazis or white supremists. Not that what they stand for is worse but because they move about our nation much more freely than the other groups precisely because they have had the support of the mainstream left. That gives them a demisnion of danger that doesn’t exist with the other hate groups. No one in the mainstream right or left would look to defend neo-nazis or white supremists
I had no idea we had so many antifa sympathizers on this forum. To each their own I guess. I like it when they punch actual nazis but people like tucker are not nazis. They need to dial it back.
Antifa was there as a group and the terrorized as a group. They literally not figuratively tried to break into the house wile yelling into a bull horn, “We will fight, we know where you sleep at night”. Please explain to me how that is not threat of violence. Additionally, show me Tuckers quote where he is encouraging anyone to commit violence. If you are going to call me a sympathizer to any hate group then you need to support that claim. You know why you can not support that claim? Because it is not supportable. Screaming racism and bigotry where none exists is a typical leftist tactic to try and derail conversations when they have no way of debating against facts. Once again, to claim that I have painted Antifa as anything other than a hate / terrorist group is unsupportable. I didn’t bring the other groups into this thread nor did I try to equate them to one another. You made those comparisons in an attempt to deflect. Sweet Lou 4 2 is exactly the type of person that would have defended and justify cross burnings to in order to advance whatever political or social agenda is important to you. You have continued to prove that thourhout this thread each time you marginalize Antifa’s actions.
Antifa is bad and should just stick to counter-protesting. I don't care too much about whether you or I condemn this or that group. What I do care about is that the President made it seem like they were both equally bad. The President. I've not seen any mainstream liberal root for Antifa I think Cuomo made a good point about it. What is right? That's ultimately what it comes down to. Groups that are for a genocide of people and a group that exists solely to fight these groups. Antifa didn't start popping up in the news UNTIL Trump won office, there's a reason for that. Just like there is a reason for the surge of hate crimes against minorities since Trump took office. It's not just some coincidental thing. At the end of the day, what is right? Was Nat Turners Slave Rebellion just as bad as what they were rebelling against? Were the Allied powers just as bad as what they fought against? It comes down to this. Antifa is misguided and groups like the KKK are just bad. The issue is that Tucker spits out white nationalist talking points almost verbatim. He needs to dial it back some or people have every right to fear that some white guy is going to shoot up their place of worship, or school, or somewhere else in the hopes of starting some race war or something. Here's what Don Black's Son, Derek, thinks about Tucker Carlson. "Unfortunately, for this book I had spend a bunch of time on Stormfront and places like it, they love Tucker Carlson. White nationalists, I would say, consider Tucker Carlson as one of their own. He carries the rhetoric of white nationalism into the public space in ways that nobody else does." https://www.salon.com/2018/09/18/wh...tartling-discoveries-in-rising-out-of-hatred/ This is what Tucker and people like Laura Ingram do. They bring racist talking points into the national discussion and normalize them. Next thing you know we're talking about Hispanics 'Invading' the country, Jewish conspiracies, and how black men are out to murder anyone that looks at them differently. This is why Antifa is so prominent today. They weren't during Obama's term, or Bush Jr, or Clinton, or Bush Sr, or Reagan...
You are the cross burner. You defend Tucker Carlson who is playing to a white nationalist agenda - how is that not a call to violence when you are spewing the same propaganda as white nationalists talking about how people of different values can not work or live side by side with another. That's a call to arms my friend! Thats' the language of hate. I condemn Antifa, but you do not condemn the alt-right and their spokesperson which is a far graver crime. You say Antifa is a hate group but who is the group they hate? Seems the only racist sympathizer here is you and then you cry when people wonder why you are considered a racist - it's because you defend racists!
There is no contradiction — “people who share no common values” and “people who are different” is not the same thing. People who are different can get along (in a meaningful, cooperative relationship) only if they have shared common values. If they allow animosity over their differences to overshadow what they have in common, they will not get along.
False equivalancy - thy name is Trump and his supporters. Things not REMOTELY in the same ball park are used to justify heinous actions. PISS OFF with that nonsense - no one is buying your bullshit. DD
Tucker supporting white nationalist movement?, just because someone doesn’t support your agenda doesn’t mean you get to make up your own reality. Your so out of touch with reality, obvioisly he’s biased but the **** people come up with to rationalize their side is amazing to me.
Astrodome, I actually agree with a lot of your post. Having said that there are points that I disagree with and points that I simply question. 1. I disagree with Tucker spouting off white nationalist talking points. Perhaps I’m not well versed enough on white nationalist talking points. I would like to discuss some of those if you are interesreted so maybe we could reach an understanding. And just to be frank, nationalism is not the same as white naltonlism. The alt-right is what I would refer to as white nationalists. 2. Another point I disagree with you on is the suggestion that Trump shares in some way for the violence against the Jews in this country. No president in the history of this country has been more pro Israel or Jew than Trump. If some deragned lunatic that hates Trump and the Jews decides to shoot up a Jewish Synagogue then that is in no way on Trump. In fact, I would suggest that the left have some very serious soul searching to do before discussing the Jewish people in our nation or on this planet. It is the left that has locked arms with people like Linda Sarsour and Louis Farrakhan who openly and vocally hates the Jewish people for nothing more than being Jewish. It is the left that has thrown their support to the very oppressive countries of the Middle East trying to destroy Israel. 2. I agree 100$% that Trump is divisive and has a major impact on the social temperature in the country today. But I question putting all of the blame for the sociial climate on Trump just because he is the president? - When Don Lemon goes on CNN and suggests that White Men are the real terror threat in this country it gas lights the right. - When CNN puts on a town hall meeting for the victims of Parkland School after the school shootings and uses it as a stage to push a political agenda and blaming Republican Congressmen for the shootings and calling them evil, it gas lights the right. - When Maxine Waters goes on TV and tells the left to confront conservatives wherever they go, it gas lights the right. - When Kathy Gifford creates a video of herself holding a severed bloody head of Donald Trump, it gas lights the right. - When Madonna says she has often dreamed of killing the president it gas lights the right. - When Nanci Pelosi, Eric Holder and Hillary Clinton go on TV and say there will be no end to civil unrest as long as conservatives are in power, it gas lights the right. - When organized mobs go into restraints for the sole purpose of harassing conservatives doing nothing more than having dinner with their families and then are defended by the left wing media and Democratic Party leaders, it gas lights the right. Are we really going to try and pin the temperature of the social climate in this country on Donald Trump alone. The left started losing their mind the second Donald Trump won the election. I would suggest that the media share as much if not more than Trump in the social climate of our nation.
