If the Rockets have to give up FOUR 1sts AND Gordon in a Butler deal, they absolutely have to get back Tyus Jones in my mind. And maybe even something small like a 2nd round pick from Atlanta.
Well that is the question. Right now the argument that Thibs is likely making is that the Wolves are banking wins with Butler and will still get what they want later. The question, if the Wolves fall out of playoff contention, will that mean that the Wolves are suddenly more open to waiting until 12-15-18? It certainly is frustrating, but I am not willing to mock the Wolves too much yet...... at this point, they may be able to extract more by waiting awhile. Butler is trying really hard to not look like a bad guy in this, and it is quite possible Thibs knows how far he can push Butler before it blows up.
I am starting to come around to the point where the Wolves wait it out until Dec 15th. It gives them more options. If they don't mind being in limbo, and it appears they don't, why not wait it out another Month. Certainly hurts the Rockets chances at Butler if they can wait until Dec 15th.
I think so too..... although I think at this point the Rockets would be more inclined to get back another useful bench player, even if it is an expiring. Adding Jimmy Butler greatly improves the Rockets in a lot of ways, including some most people don't think of (free throws)..... but it also leaves the Rockets with few real ways to add a piece, even a small one this year. The remainder of the MLE could be used on someone already on the Rockets roster, so that leaves straight buyouts. Other than second rounders we couldn't even move future picks for an upgrade.
There is a danger for the Wolves in waiting too. What if the Rockets get hot and back off on their offer. Hypothetically, what is another player like Blake Griffin becomes available and the Rockets decide to dump their assets into a deal for him. What if Mike Conley or Marc Gasol become available? What if Kemba Walker? Bradley Beal? What if someone like Wesley Matthews of Bazemore become available at a fraction of the cost of Butler, and the Rockets decide to keep Gordon and some of their draft picks and add someone like Matthews? The Wolves quite possibly already lost out on a chance for Josh Richardson....... if the Rockets go a different direction, then the Wolves could really be in a tough spot. The Lakers already have passed on trading for Leonard and George. Are they suddenly going to offer a lot for Butler? That is possible but not likely. There is a lot at risk here for Minnesota to play this right. From the Rockets perspective you want to seal the deal obviously, but if they cannot......... Memphis and others may well move players the Rockets want. If the Pistons or Wizards struggle there will be options there too, most likely.
This is a sane argument. And a SANE management would take this into account. But if the Wolves and turning a blind eye to the issues now, they are turning a blind eye to the danger of waiting as well. That's the problem. I agree that Josh Richardson might be off the table now. Tim Bontemps and others have mentioned, low key, Bradley Beal as someone teams should really target. Wizards look like a mess but they don't look like a team that is going to make any trades.
The Jimmy Butler saga has hovered over the NBA ever since his trade request from the Minnesota Timberwolves became public on the eve of training camp, and there doesn’t appear to be an imminent resolution in talks to send Butler out of Minnesota. The Timberwolves came close to finalizing a trade with the Miami Heat in early October, exchanging medical paperwork on both Butler and Josh Richardson. A promising two-way player, Richardson, 25, was the centerpiece of the Heat’s proposal. Yet, talks fell apart, and who is to blame for that depends on who you ask. Would Miami offer Richardson again? In nine games so far this season, Richardson is averaging career-highs in key areas: 21.9 points, 4.4 rebounds, 2.9 assists and 1.1 blocks per game. He’s four years younger than Butler, is in the first season of a four-year, $42 million contract and has the upside to be an All-Star caliber player. Then, the Houston Rockets offered a package of two players who were injured at the time — Brandon Knight and Marquese Chriss — and four future first-round draft picks, but Minnesota never showed any inclination to accept that, league sources said. Knight has an unclear return timetable after undergoing left knee surgery in the summer and dealing with infection in his knee. It’s uncertain if the Rockets will eventually include Eric Gordon and/or P.J. Tucker as pressure around the Rockets remains three months ahead of the February trade deadline and the team aims to compete with the Golden State Warriors in the West. For Timberwolves and president/coach Tom Thibodeau, accepting two players unlikely to crack his rotation and four draft picks with uncertain conditions was a non-starter, sources said. Around the NBA, there’s belief that the Heat and Philadelphia 76ers could re-emerge in the Butler discussions. For his part, Butler has taken the next steps in his month-plus-long goal of getting out of Minnesota, deciding to sit out of two games over the past week against Utah and Portland. This saga has had many twists and turns, but a resolution seems distant at this time.
I really don't know on the Wizards. I haven't been told they are trying to secretly move players out. However, it makes sense that at some point they have to break the team up. I think that there would be a lot of interest around the league in Beal because he defends well enough and can be either a secondary player that doesn't require the ball in his hands or potentially could see more production with greater usage.
Offer the same package to the Wiz: Gordon, Chriss, Knight + 3 or 4 1st round picks for Beal and Oubre
I don't think the Wizards are at that point yet. However they are an example of a team that could have players available that the Rockets covet (Beal/Wall/Porter).
Yeah, Minnesota is not going to trade Butler to Houston. Do we want to wait till trade deadline or move forward?
Minnesota is taking a gamble here. The whole bird in the hand saying. IF and I say IF the rockets start to put things together with everyone settling into their roles and start to roll, they may not consider Jimmy Butler a necessity, rather a nice to have. That 4 first rounders and Gordon might become two or three first rounders. Daryl might turn his attention elsewhere to tweak/fine tune the roster with more shooters. Maybe JR, KCorv, or someone we haven't even been thinking about.
With both Townes and Wiggins on max deals moving forward the Wolves aren't going to have massive cap space regardless of whether or not they're rid of Dieng. In 2019, assuming that Teague opts in and they do no trade Josh Okogie, James Nunnally and Keita Bates-Diop they will have a payroll of $79,741,103 (this includes the cap hit they took for stretching Cole Aldrich). So they'd have room to sign a max guy, but I wouldn't call that massive. Unless they then managed to trade Teague to a team with room who can simply absorb him. Then suddenly they have about 55 million in cap room. Not sure why they'd do any of that though. What top tier player would join that team after they've seen this circus? My guess is that the Wolves will mostly be relegated to submitting offer sheets on restricted free agents and hoping their teams don't match.
If I am the Rockets, I keep that offer of 4 first-round draft picks, Knight, and Chriss on the table until the Wolves are ready to accept it. They will not move Butler to an in-conference opponent unless it becomes the best move possible. For that to happen, they will need to exhaust all other options with teams from the east.
Rockets are about to make up ground especially after this tough stretch. Not worried. 3-1 with Paul, Harden, Capela. Make that 4-1 tomorrow night Houston's offer could end up being the best and Minnesota could end up caving. Minnesota will be going the other way in the standings
I appreciate your posts. You are a glimmer of sanity while we await Cod-bombs and cyber-bombs. I have given up on ch44. He must have a life.
