Stop putting words in my mouth. Butler is a top 15 player and easily replaces the production of both combined. Again, my original comment was "if we don't improve on our defense..." which means if our defense is still bottom five well into the season, then we should do it. Will Butler magically bring us to middle of the pack defensively? Probably not and I'm not saying he would. But if you're bottom five on defense well into the season, then PJ is not doing what we brought him here to do.
Even though most approved the trade, plenty of people questioned what the impact of Beverley (the heart and soul of the team at the time) would be.
if he replaced the production of both an EG/PJ easily and is truly a top 15 player in this league, his teams that were ever led by him should be way better than what they were. Fact is they weren't and were never any real contenders ever. People want to make themselves believe hes this good and so easily worth this much. Reality has shown he isn't. for as hyped up as you try to make him, his true impact doesn't live up to it nearly enough
a few people who view things just bc they dont want to go with the crowd is in no way shape or form "plenty". that's not even relevant. that's just you trying to use that as a narrative bc you just happen to be one of those few people
No he does not. Hes not a better shooter than EG and doesnt provide the defensive versatility that Tucker does. If you really believe that he "easily" does that we have nothing more to discuss. Thats fair enough but PJ was not brought here to drag crappy defense with crappy defensive players(MCW, Melo, etc).
Of course. But none are available. And no...some random FA on the vet min or Zhou Qi is not stepping in tomorrow and dominating.
TWolves last year were 37-22 with him in the lineup and 10-13 without him. Seems like a pretty significant difference to me. Were they contenders? No, but Harden and CP3 are obviously better than Towns and Wiggin. I was not one of those people against trading Beverley. Seems like you're not understanding my point. Last year: Butler TS% .590 Gordon TS% .578 Agree that he doesn't provide the defensive versatility of Tucker, and that's why I was against trading Tucker for him. Like I keep saying, if we continue to have one of the worst defenses in the league, I'd argue that Tucker's defensive prowess and versatility have diminished. If we are struggling and have the opportunity to bring in a top 15 player, you gotta do it. Anyway, I will no longer reply to y'all because we're arguing in circles and it doesn't even seem like y'all understand the premise of my argument or are thoroughly reading/digesting my responses. I suggest you re-read my original post in this thread, I will disengage now.
This is every center who has defended even half of the 2pt shots that Clint has this year that has a better shot differential. Which one of these players is "easily attainable"? Maybe Ed Davis? Well Ed Davis is allowing +10 on 3 pointers while Clint is -2.6, so he is not even close to the perimeter defender Clint is.
True shooting doesn't mean he's a better shooter than Gordon, it means hes a more efficient scorer and needs the ball in his hands more which is a totally different thing, go look at the type of 3s they take and their percentages. I still disagree, and you expecting Tucker to do that by himself is ridiculous. I'm reading them just fine, I'm just disagreeing with your hypothetical. We are going in circles because you keep making the same points I already addressed.
No there isn’t that many true centers now days?. I can barley name 5 legit centers as it is. Cousins, Anthony Davis.....
That's kind of weird to me. (in no particular order) 1. Joel Embiid 2. DeMarcus Cousins 3. Karl Anthony Towns. 4. Nikola Jokic 5. Rudy Gobert 6. Andre Drummond 7.Deandre Ayton 8. Deandre Jordan, 9. Steven Adams 10. Marc Gasol 11. Dwight Howard 12. Hassan Whiteside 13. LaMarcus Aldridge 14. Al Horford 15. Anthony Davis
You named 15 centers with a good majority that are actually Power forwards that occasionally slot as center and non factors/mediocre/washed up such as Howard, Adams, gasol and etc So I think my point is still pretty valid that guys like Clint capela are rare in today’s nba So that means out of 30 teams there are maybe 10 legitimately good centers.
