I don't think anyone (including the Wolves) know what is going to happen. This is just my own opinion, but I agree with J.R., I think at the end of the day Butler ends up in Miami. Pat Riley is old, he doesn't want to rebuild and the Heat are a little desperate than other teams for Butler.
I still feel like Butler will end up in Miami if Miami has relented to giving up Josh Richardson. They will want a pick as well. And they want Dieng offloaded. But Minny is not taking back Fat Waiters. So there is still some massaging to do in the parameters most likely. I still feel like the Rockets have offered EG+Nene+Pick(s). And are holding back PJ. And are looking for a 3rd team to take Dieng as another positive aspect for Minny. Those are my "non-insider" guesses.
Have to believe this gets done before the start of the season. His value goes down as the season goes on because teams know Minn has to trade him or risk losing him for nothing. Remember, rarely do things get done until there is a deadline. After start of the season, next deadline is Dec. 15? Then again, it's Minnesota.
He wouldn’t replace both. Add up the minutes played by both then you have Butler and whomever else replaces those minutes. I don’t know which is better.
Thing is, Thibs will deal with the circus. The question is, when will owner Glen Taylor finally say "enough is enough" with the drama. It is when we reach that threshold.
That's my guess as our best offer. Knight, dieng, player X 1 for 1 for 1 with a pick somewhere. Gordon, nene, pick for butler
No ones being defensive here. Was just laughing at ‘holics hate. I only tagged you to explain I wasn’t attacking cyber being misinformed with respect to your post. Misunderstanding.
its not just about can he replace them though. EG, Tuck, and a pick is too much for a guy that can walk at the end of the year, and he has an injury history. the rockets would be taking a pretty big risk in this deal. minny would make out like bandits IMO. the rockets would need to be getting more than just butler in return for that kind of deal. look at all the pieces minny gave up to get butler, and after one year he wants out.
i would like jimmy on the rockets but his impact alone doesn't surpass the impact of gordon + pj combined.
Again, you're glossing over who that player X is. That in itself is key. Is it an uptick in minutes for Ennis? That's where the beginning of the drop off occurs. Now, if Houston can keep Tuck and still get Butler I agree with you, that's just insane in terms of defense. In a juggernaut series against the warriors, can Butler get his own on offense while still guarding a guy like Durant? I have a hard time saying yes to that. I just don't see it. Again, the identity of Player X does sway that opinion, but currently who is that guy going to be?
Spoiler While teams trying to deal with the Timberwolves as the Jimmy Butler saga drags have expressed frustration with the asking price — Miami’s offer was centered around solid, young two-way guard Josh Richardson and a draft pick, but the Wolves sought to add deadweight salary into the mix — there’s also a good deal of trepidation about acquiring Butler, league executives told Sporting News. "As good as Jimmy is, I think you have to be concerned about the impact he is going to have in the locker room, on your younger guys, on your coaching staff, all of that," one general manager said. "He has gotten the benefit of the doubt, but if you look at his history, he’s had trouble getting along in Chicago and now in Minnesota. "Everywhere he goes, it becomes about Jimmy, and if you’re going to bring him in, you have to account for that." For Minnesota, there is the obvious need to get a return package for Butler that keeps the team in the playoff mix. Butler is an elite player, a four-time All-Star who averaged 22.2 points, 5.3 rebounds and 4.9 assists last year, and he is an excellent defender. The Timberwolves earned a playoff spot for the first time since 2004 with Butler on board. Minnesota does not want to give all of that up. There are, of course, plenty of factors that have hindered a Butler trade. Head coach Tom Thibodeau has been reluctant to move Butler all along, even as the team’s opening game looms just a week away. Owner Glen Taylor, though, has been eager to honor Butler’s trade demand and get the roster set. Sources told Sporting News last month that, if the Wolves deal Butler for rebuilding-type pieces, Thibodeau would likely leave the job by season’s end. There’s also Butler’s leverage. Because Butler has a year left on his contract, teams uncertain that he could be re-signed have not been part of the group making offers. That group Butler prefers is limited to the Nets, Heat and Clippers, though other teams have at least inquired about getting Butler on the cheap. Miami has had the most serious Butler talks, but those reportedly crashed this weekend as Minnesota upped its price on a Butler swap. Other teams have not been engaging the Wolves in any kind of bidding war — not just yet. Brooklyn has been timid in its approach toward Butler, having amassed some solid young pieces and established a hard-working culture under coach Kenny Atkinson. The Nets went so far as to nix including small forward Caris LeVert — a promising 24-year-old, but hardly a star — in trade talks. The Clippers have been in contact with the Wolves, too, but LA won’t include forward Tobias Harris in a deal. Instead, the Clippers have juggled offers that include Danilo Gallinari as the centerpiece, or some combination including guards Patrick Beverley, Milos Teodosic and others. "The Wolves want to get fair value on Jimmy, but that is not going to happen," one executive told Sporting News. "It’s not just that. If you’re the Nets or Clippers, you know you could sign the guy next summer without giving up anything. It’s also, is this the right fit with what we are doing? The Nets have been trying to build up a certain culture, but you add Butler and that dynamic changes. "It is going to be Jimmy Butler and then everyone else. That’s how he has been in Chicago and in Minnesota." Indeed, few would argue that Butler’s complaints about the work ethics of young Wolves stars Karl-Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins, which came out through sources this offseason, are justified. By the same token, his complaints about Bulls coach Fred Hoiberg and the organization’s direction were justified in Chicago. But Butler did little during his time with the Bulls to help Hoiberg, or to help his young teammates. It was much the same in Minnesota, where Butler didn’t do much to mentor Towns or Wiggins. Now that he wants to be traded, teams are acutely aware of that. Butler has been in some dysfunctional situations, not entirely of his making. But his part in that dysfunction is not being ignored.
You seem stuck on some speculator narrative theatrics. Minny calling us, confirms cyberx isn't just someone saying something, like your ongoing narrative prior implied. Wasn't your position always that "There's nothing to see here, ppl." Nothing today means PJ for Butler wasn't already rejected by Thibs, any less than EGo for Butler was. Now, we are back to other variations of EG, Tucker and FRPs....which is the thread's Opening Post. ---------------------------------------------- Reread the opening post, combined with today's posts ---------------------------------------------- Did we (even cyberx) misread that Opening Post as PJ+EGo+FRP versus simply "many variations." We certainly argued for about 40+ pages about such a huge, combined package. Seems cyberx's opening post was originally more accurate than this corrected comment, no? I attribute that to trying to provide a fluid update after Miami broke down, and he misheard wrt our willingness to still offer FRPs. Recall above, "Expect him to offer EG, Tucker, 1st (many variations of course)", surely Minny already rejected any PJ (+filler salary) only variations...as well as EGo + filler rejections. But this confirms variations with FRPs was accurate -- as a combined package, though?? TBD. ---------------------------- @Zoplicone If you don't trust someone more who so openly corrects himself (few insiders do, and one amateur NEVER does), then maybe you should. I read today as he wrote it. cybers first corrected his "No picks" comment from yesterday.... His whole context today is about multiple picks as part of packages. None of that means PJ only or Gordon Only weren't already rejected. Now we seem to have confirmation that PJ+EGo isn't currently on the table or multiple picks plus either aren't as well.
Have you watched jimmy butler play? he’s a legit star. Not sure why you think he can’t get his own offense while guarding the best player as he’s done this for the last 3 years.
Again, talking about a guy like Durant. If he could do what you say he can, the warriors wouldn't be a threat to a team like Minnesota. The warriors are the metric here. As they should be.
