i don't see much of a difference between melton and bazemore... similar height/wingspan. bazemore has more years in the nba but has never been known as a high iq/team player, and has a big contract. why trade melton, who will be on a min deal under team control who has more off/def upside and may be just as good on both ends this season if given playing time? on top of that, trading ryno and a 1st probably has more value around the trade deadline.. if bazemore is really what we might be settling for, why not just wait and see what we really need as a team and make a move then when more desperate sellers might be available? atlanta is going nowhere so bazemore will be available in feb anyhow...
Lol at the Hawks if they really want 1st rounder AND Melton (which i would never move for a decent role player regardless) to swap Anderson for Bazemore. Pretty sure that's part of their game but, yeah...they're the same organization that took back Lin for a 2020 second rounder losing a 1st and a 2nd from Denver...and they just took back a protected 2021 first rounder from a top team to swap Melo for Schroder when that team was literally forced to deal with them. Now they want a 1st and Melton for Bazemore which is another bad contract just like Ryan...ok. Pretty sure a 1st rounder and minor assets would be enough to get it done, not even sure the Rockets are offering that instead of 2nd rounders, Hartenstein and cash. Nobody is offering more than a protected 1st rounder and probably other long term contracts (Snell, Delly) for Bazemore at 19M for two years anyway.
That’s too much. Rockets/DM specifically said they need some youth on the team with the stats aging. Melton is a key piece of that.
Well they did give $80M to Ryno in '16 and now can't wait to ship him out in exchange for a ham sandwich.
Well... I mean... why did Morey break his rule of maintaining flexibility? There's pretty much only one answer, right? So it wasn't about pigeon-holing you are anyone and probably even less about how you actually feel about it, just more about the basic facts here.
HP, I was kinda joking. Having fun. I understand your position. But also, stretching Anderson does take a tool away. You don't have his salary to flip for more salary. Not having cap space, salary flipping with trades is likely the best tool.
I'm summer league high on Melton like any of you.... ... HOWEVER, if we think about it, the chances of Melton getting any, much less any significant playing time in next year's playoffs is probably pretty low. I mean there's upside there that he can definitely do it, first as a 3&D hustle do a bit of everything role player type... but just going likelihoods here. And the Rockets really have to be ALL IN on next year... and then the next year. So to me the question isn't "would you include Melton?", it's "what can you get back if you do include Melton?" If Anderson (who is unlikely to contribute much this year) + Melton (who is unlikely to contribute much this year) + 2019 1st round pick (which can not contribute this year and is likely to be a 25+ pick) is too much for Bazemore, is there something else you can get back form Atlanta to make it worthwhile? And if not, is there another team that would value such a package more and therefore more willing give you back that higher return you want? Undoubtedly DM is working the phones to see how the league is valuing Melton as an add-in...
I can think of a player I'd trade Ryan + a first rounder + Melton for and his name rhymes with Grotto Sorter.
Amick and Iko reports RE: Bazemore. Negotiating in the media. Rockets probably would give up a 1st for Bazemore. But not giving up Melton. Melton isn't untouchable by any means. But the caliber of player in return has to have some youth and/or be close to an all star player. Like, you consider moving Melton in an Otto Porter package. You consider moving Melton if Winslow is involved. Or if Jimmy Butler is involved. But you don't move Melton for Bazemore or James Johnson.
If you want to own that "underlying implication," have at it. Just leave me out of it, with the mentions. What happens is the underlying implication is more divisive, and I got pigeon-holed as staunchly on one side. That's not the case. I'm just a CBA nerd, and you and deuce calling me out in Mentions in your own opposing back-n-forth, pigeon-holes me as anti, tax saving, which I'm not.
You missed my point. If he uses it, then I have faith that he has given up using his trade tools. It doesn't take a trade tool away, if Morey believes he's exhausted all attempts to use that tool, and came up with nothing. Then why not just take him off the books. It moves the free salary forward in time, yet you get less of it. Stretching is just another form of waiving. Sometimes you are giving up on trade value, and he has even *less* than Melo does. Now, using old scenarios, if he pays teams FRPs to take Ryan off the books, like he did Lin, then he better have a big reason to do that vs just Onuaku tax savings. See where I'm dividing things ... just waive/stretch, don't toss in FRPs just to save money.
I looked at it as pretty much a "given" (or have faith) that Morey could at minimum re-arrange the deck chairs to better allocate Anderson's salary versus waiving him. That is all I was saying. Not missing the point as much as having faith in Morey utilizing his tools.
Again, I don't really care if you're anti-tax savings or not. And I wasn't calling you out as much as referencing your correctly noted analysis of that deal. And ... it's not so much about owning an underlying implication... it is what it is. obviously we're not in the room, but if someone can clearly articulate how the move possibly wasn't about tax saving then I'm HAPPY to listen. Which is why I asked the question. The best I've heard is "well, that's just prudent cap management" type language... which is true, but doesn't contradict the conclusion. I think its an important understanding to have because the board is littered with "well, cap space be damned let's just get player x,y, or z" type posts, trade suggestions, etc.
I'd rather keep Anderson, our picks, and Melton as to trade for Bazemore and give up any significant assets. Because at the deadline, all our guys will be tradeable, including all the free agents we signed, and including also Gordon, and we have a much, much greater chance of landing a real two-way star/superstar them with everybody on the table. By that time we'll know more about the improvements Qi has made to his game. We'll also know if Melton has superstar potential and has cracked the rotation. And we'll also know whether Capela has continue to improved or plateaued. The risk is two-fold: an injury makes a players trade value crater, and if a player underperforms his trade value craters. But all the same, Anderson will be a half season closer to an expiring contract....which should make it a little easier to move him. If we cannot find a deal for Anderson now (I know there's at least one deal that we can however) that allows us to break Anderson up into two players with a combined similar contracts or at least one player with a similar contract and a second player that is an asset in exchange for a smaller asset other than Melton/first rounder then I say just keep him for now. Bazemore? - most I would give up would be a lottery protected 2019 first...But we have to get back their 2019 second in that deal. Or maybe one of Hartenstein or Edwards with Anderson for Bazemore. Miami - James Johnson and Dion Waiters are $26.2 million in immediate salary and both guys have an extra year over Anderson. We'd have to throw in Edwards to make the deal work and we've just taken them out of the luxury tax while adding over $5 millin in salary plus another $10 million or so in luxury tax....not to mention having to deal with their contracts possibly being on the books for three more years. Not only that but Waiters has absolutely sucked. He has negative trade value. And James Johnson, while a great defender, does definitely have a couple screws loose upstairs and could very well melt down ala Mad Max under pressure. And he has off-court issues. So while we can fantasize about Johnson's crazy dunks and stellar defensive play (and I can definitely see the possible fit as a small ball rim-running 5 with great defensive switchability).......the truth is that this trade is a salary dump for Miami. And therefore for us to do that deal, Miami would have to give up a significant asset. And it can't be a lottery protected first that turns into two second rounders if they go to the lottery. Because Miami is a team on the fence. They could very well be in the lottery or decide to bottom out into the lottery. And taking on all that money for two future second rounders just ain't worth it. It's too risky going forward. We can't afford any more risk on this roster without acquiring assets to move off the additional risk. So if we're going to deal with Miami (and they do want out of the luxury tax) then we can't be sending out any assets in the deal. Miami has to cough up whatever asset to get the deal done. Now if the deal was expanded to a third team where Miami could send Waiters and the asset and we get back an expiring contract to go with James Johnson......say the Cavs are willing to take Waiters and a 2020 pick from Miami while sending us JR Smith (non-guaranteed in 2019-20) and then maybe we throw Nene, Edwards, and a second rounder into the deal to balance it out then you might have something working. Smith's contract at the deadline would give us added trade flexibility. Or we could just do this thing up real simple, send Anderson, a pick, Edwards, and Nene, and Hartenstein out to Miami and take back Whiteside and Winslow.......... Washington? - another team desperate to cut salary. Knee deep in the tax. And they'd really like to get out of Porter jr's deal. I like Porter, jr. a lot. But not enough to send out any significant assets with Anderson to get him. He's coming off a hip injury. And he's on a huge max deal for three more seasons. And he's a younger Trevor Ariza when healthy. No handle. No playmaking. Great 3&D guy but isn't going to create anything. So perhaps Anderson and Edwards for OPJr, but no picks. A more doable deal with the Wiz would be something like Anderson, Nene, Edwards, Hartenstein, and a re-signed Tarik Black (filler) for Mahinmi, Markeiff, Jason Smith, and Kelly Oubre. This would save the wizards over $6.5 million in salary plus roughly another $13 million in luxury taxes. But would cost us a ton in extra salary and tax this season. However those expiring are nice trade pieces. And Oubre jr could be either a great fit at the 3 or a potential trade chip for another superstar at the deadline. Lots of pieces in that deal admittedly. And the Wiz wanting Butler really complicates things. They'd really like to get Butler for Otto but the Wolves so far haven't found a deal that would allow them to move Dieng to stay under the luxury tax while taking back Porter, jr and Oubre. And they can't find a trade for Wiggins either, whom they'd really like to move. Nobody wants Wiggins. Phoenix - might be the most logical trade partner - Knight and Warren for Anderson and Edwards. They're holding out for an asset though. And this deal might be a worth our 2019 first if we could possibly move Warren to a third team with Hartenstein and Nene also going out...for a better young 3 (Winslow/Oubre jr)and other two-year or expiring contracts (JJ or JR or Mahinmi or Wiz expirings). Or if we just did a straight up deal, maybe we throw in a second and/or Hartenstein. But not Melton. And not a first. Or.....We can just wait until February.
Yeah, that was a head-scratcher. Somehow he managed to get Rubio into a sentence. You never forget your first love.
