If you’re for guys getting second chances after they’ve served their sentence, why wouldn’t you want the Astros to acquire him?
This thread didn’t get this long with people trying to rationalize it. I’m fine with people criticizing the Astros... but turning this into a witch hunt to claim people “don’t understand DV” is taking things too far. Either you’re ok with giving guys second chances, or you think any potential DV or assault convict should be banned from baseball. I think that extremist punishment view is better off in militaristic dictatorships, but everybody’s entitled to their beliefs. And it was you implying that anybody who’s for giving second chances is also somehow for DV that was the viewpoint that deserved to be mocked... nothing else.
This is the second time you have claimed this. I did not imply this at all. Notice the qualifying language I used in the original statement. --> I'm sure you are all about giving people second chances, but most fans don't preach this understanding for the wellbeing and compassion for athletes unless they are a) really good and b) can help their team. I implied that *most* fans are *hypocrites* where the behaviour and well-being of athletes are concerned. Again, for all I know you may employ ex-cons fresh out of prison and give second chances to people left and right because you are a wonderful, compassionate person. That's great. I just think *most* people strongly speaking on Osuna's behalf here will drop their principled support of his right to a second chance the moment he blows a save. The Astros, coming off a World Series title, don't have to be the team to give Osuna a second chance before he even finishes his suspension.
I think its implied that for a professional athlete to be given another shot... they need to be good and help their team. If said athlete is no good, they're probably not going to get another shot regardless of whether or not they're an angel. See Johnny Manziel.... if he was actually a good NFL QB, he'd get another shot immediately. Of course there's a double standard... this is fantasy-land sports, not reality. Nobody is strongly speaking on Osuna's behalf. The Astros do need a closer. Anybody who picks up Osuna would have that need. The Astros are trying to repeat. They're trying to win. Can they be criticized for this move due to moral reasons, sure... but they wouldn't be the first successful team to take risks on guys with checkered pasts. If anything, if you're for giving players a second chance after a mistake, I'd rather them be on a team that has a solid foundation/clubhouse as the Astros.
The funniest part about all of this is hypothetically had we not traded for Osuna and he was traded to say, the Indians, who then beat us in the ALDS with him getting the final out in game 5 after our bullpen blew a late lead...I can without question say some of the people going crazy in this thread would have been calling for Lunhow’s head.
So are all of Chapman’s stats but he is the Yankees closer. Osuna is our closer,nothing will change that. He has served his time according to the MLB. Everything that happened is speculation. You don’t have to like it, don’t have to go to the games and you can believe what you wish. I trust the Astros and their due diligence based on my research and until something out there changes my mind.... It’s Time to play ball
Most of us want to give others second chances after they have finished serving their punishment and/or there is some sense of remorse or learning from the mistake. The trade occurred before either happened. I have said more than once on this thread that i think this trade would have been widely accepted if it happened a year from now. But it would probably cost the Astros more prospect. As an example I was rooting for Michael Vick as an Eagle.
I doubt anyone who has a problem with the trade now would somehow have been dumping on Lunhow for trading for him. That doesn't even make sense.
That’s a completely arbitrary and made up timeline of “remorse”. One year going by doesn’t change either what he did or what his punishment was. He was suspended 75 games. Nobody is calling for him to be reinstated sooner. He will play only after serving his entire suspension. It wasn’t his decision to have his team trade him elsewhere. Either you have a problem with a guy like that pitching for the Astros or you’re willing to take him on. To use your example, pretty sure the Falcons would have loved to get that MVP version of Vick...and yes, if it was the case that he was no longer as good (like Kapernick) he would not have been given that opportunity so quickly. If it sickens you that there’s a huge double standard in sports amongst those players with talent and those without, I don’t know what else to say... except this is the reality of professional sports leagues.
Other teams made offers. As no other elite bullpen guys ended up getting traded after Osuna, there’s a very good chance that if they don’t make this move, Giles is back up here once Devenski hit the DL, and the usual suspects are complaining without making caveats or saying “great job” to them passing on Osuna.
I picked 2019 because of the trade deadline. And we have seen an example with the guy people keep bringing up, Chapman. He served suspension, came back, played some games and then gets traded. Most didn't have a peonlwn I only picked 2019 because of the trade deadline. We have an example in Chapman where he came back from suspension in May and was traded to the Cubs in July. He played in about 30 games I believe. What do you think is different between both cases? Why is the reaction to both trades different? It's not a matter of actual remorse but an impression of remorse. Again, we are talking about the court of public opinion where the facts don't mean as much as perception. That Ray Rice visual for instance changed everyone's perception even if it didn't change the court case. That's why players come out with apologies pretty quickly after a scandal hits and almost always say "that's not who I am". They want to make it seem that it was a mistake and not a pattern of behavior or a bad character. That's what the remorse does. If Vick came out and was arrogant and didn't put out any apologies or try to rebuild his image, no team would have touched him. Even as good as he was. He did a lot of social and charity work to rebuild his image. He "showed" humility and took a backup role and didn't complain and insist on being a starter. All that helped his return to football. I don't care about the double standard with athletes and talent. And I'm not outraged or sick about it. Never said I was. It did cause me to raise an eyebrow and I'm in a "this might get ugly" "let's wait and see" mode. What I don't understand is how you seem to be surprised that people are having difficulty with this. Even the Astros players are uneasy about him joining the team. You seem more outraged about the "outrage" than the "outraged" itself. You have no problem with the trade. Others do. And they have their reasons. And those reasons are not ridiculous. Neither is you liking the trade.
I think people are trying to deal with a moral issue via a sports decision, and it’s virtually impossible (and mutually exclusive) to do that. The Astros making this move does not mean they support DV as some here are alluding to. Your arbitrary one year passing for the perception of remorse is more or less that after about a year, “nobody cares as much”, which actually makes light of the original offense. As I said earlier, you’re either of the stance that he should get a shot after he finishes his suspension... or he should be banned for life because of what he did.
I agree with you 100%. I don’t think there was any other choice at the point we made the trade - it was either getting Osuna or ride with the pen we had. And people who are complaining we could have gotten Britton instead...we don’t know what the Orioles wanted from us and it’s impossible to tell based on what they received from the Yankees. I feel like half the people here just assume if we offered prospects on Baseball America’s list that was higher than the Yankees that it’s 100% automatic the Orioles take it which isn’t the case. For all we know the Orioles may have been persistent on getting Whitley.
What? I think you misread my post. I’m saying the people who dislike this trade for “moral” reasons would have complained about Lunhow if we didn’t make the trade and our bullpen imploded in the playoffs. They would have said he did nothing at the deadline and it’s all his fault.
Winning makes people forget and move on, Kobe Bryant Rape Case does anybody in ESPN bring it up now, no they don't because ESPN is in L.A. If Roberto Osuna was with the Dodgers, Yankees, Cubs, Red Sox they would celebrate his Perfomance like Aroldis Chapman getting big outs in the Postseason. Brian Cashman and Theo Epstein traded for Chapman risking a Fanbase a Clean image on both Teams. Red Sox David Ortiz beloved figure by the Media and Fans, Ortiz did take Steroids, now it's forgotten about today. He is in the Media, Alex Rodriguez a Steroid User is now loved now and in the Media, Michael Vick Dog Fights in his backyard, jailed, played with the Eagles, now respected.
