I'm arguing against those saying whatever Osuna did was automatically worse than Chapman simply because Chapman "only" got 30 games. Its entirely arbitrary and largely influenced on the heightened awareness/sensitivity the media has brought to these issues today, compared to just 3 years ago. I also have no hopes or wishes that people click "like" for me... I wasn't even aware that was a thing.
The usual suspects in the battle for internet moral superiority are taking their stands. I love it. It's like clockwork. With that in mind, if you have such a problem with the move stop supporting the team. But most importantly, shut your mouths. Nobody cares what you think, and your opinions don't hold any more weight than the next guy's
I don't mind someone taking the moral high ground, but be consistent about it. This "I have been a fan for 30 years" and "I can't believe we signed Osuna" crap doesn't fly because it isn't consistent with history. The Astros (like every team) have had a number of terrible people play for them in the past and now suddenly there is outrage. If you want to be outraged, and take the moral high ground, at least admit that you have been a hypocrite about it.
I've seen far too many people try this; it's a non-starter - they are punishable under wholly separate MLB policies, and thus, there's zero equivalency between the two. The only proper way to contextualize Osuna's suspension is against other DV-related suspensions, and in that context, he is serving what is, I believe, the second-longest DV-related suspension in MLB history, so... Yeah......
So his morality can change but someone like Osuna's can't? Your giving some people a free pass for their past sins (in this case, ignoring or being indifferent to domestic violence, which some would argue is worse) but you're not willing to allow the same leniency for the other side when no one knows all the facts (apologies if I'm mis-construing you on the latter part). Like you said, everything changes over time, including people. Again, no one here (as far as I can tell) is condoning any form of domestic violence or abuse. People are simply lamenting the hypocrisy here and the abandonment of the "innocent until proven guilty" axiom because right now in this current era, it is definitely more socially fashionable to take up arms on these social issues for better or worse on internet forums (whether or not you like to hear that, you can't deny it is definitely an element here). I guess for me, you can both decry domestic violence and still hold people to a standard of impartiality and logic at the same time. The fact that some of you are already just tossing Bret Myers' incident (among others) out the window is pretty telling of the general attitude here a few years from now. The message I'm getting is people will be pardoned for supporting the Astros during this whole incident when they revolt over a new player several years from now charged with committing an even worse crime.
The basic definition of assault in Canada is the intention to apply force to someone else in a direct or indirect manner, without that person’s consent. This is a very important point to note; the threat of assault is all that is required for an assault charge to be legally given. Actual injury does NOT have to occur in order for an assault charge to occur. The most important points of an assault charge are that the person being charged had direct intent to inflict harm, and that the person being harmed did not give consent. For Roberto Osuna, the details behind the incident that yielded the accusation and, subsequently, a 75-game suspension from Major League Baseball remain opaque. The heinousness of his behavior is subject to the imagination, and Osuna remains shielded by a lack of transparency over what transpired. No one in the media knows what happened except he has served a 75 game suspension. Everything has been speculation. Has their been any concrete facts on what actually happened? Pictures, videos, actual account? Hope the Astros saw all the evidence and after their due diligence felt he was deserving of a second chance. Would hate if there is some secret video Astros didn’t know about that shows they picked up a real thug. All speculation.....for all we know, this was one big heated argument where he yells out he will hit her if she doesn’t stop. That would be enough for an assault charge in Canada. However, that wouldn’t fit a 75 game suspension. We shall see...
The fact remains that at one point, they considered a player choking a female and firing a gun into the air to be less problematic than taking Adderral. Its an entirely arbitrary process. Those ready to execute Osuna without knowing any facts, and basing it solely on his # game suspension, are even worse than those trying to rationalize everything... because you're the ones who eventually make it impossible to give somebody a fair trial. Everybody is guilty due to the initial report. Apparently 2nd chances are also impossible in your world. 22 year old mistakes are just that.... to say that he should never be given an opportunity in baseball is one of the most myopic viewpoints one could possibly dig in on here.
IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE ROBERTO OSUNA'S INNOCENT GIRLFRIEND MAY HAVE BEEN STRANGLED OR HIT - GET IT??!! (Seriously, it's gross.)
No a non-starter is acting outraged that the Astros traded for someone accused of domestic violence when the team has a track record of doing the same damn thing numerous times in the past. If she was such a big fan or cared as much as she claims, she would have know that fact and addressed why she was fine with it before and now isn't..... but that would require a certain level of self awareness and personal responsibility that seems to be lacking. It is a whole lot easier to get "outraged" and blame anyone else. I also find it insulting that because it happened to her mother, that it now is important. As if it wasn't an issue before because it didn't personally impact her. Just selfish BS and hypocritical thinking all the way around. As far as Osuna is concerned, he is likely a scum bag. The difference is that he isn't the only scumbag but people like Buster Olney and Jeff Passan like to stretch their moral superiority.... yet hardly a word on Familia's suspension and I remember Passan on the radio in Chicago after the Chapman trade. These idiots need to look themselves in the face and accept that if it is terrible now, it was terrible then and they just went with the flow.. and mind you that Chapman to the Cubs was only a few years ago.
Fans are obviously conflicted and are working their conflicts out on the internet. They are fans of the Astros and they were not fans of Osuna before he became an Astro. It's not as simple as just pick a side. It is very possible to be a fan of a team and not a fan of a specific player on the team. I never really liked Gomez but I still rooted for the team when the trade occurred. Giles annoyed me and I thought he wasn't worthy of the closer role while he was here but I was still a fan of the team. Domestic violence is a level higher. There are avid Astros fans who have had to experience the horrors of domestic violence at home. Some might not care but to some fans this is hard for them. It might seem irrational to others but things usually work itself out. My hope is that Osuna joins the team and goes above and beyond to let his teammates and fans know that he is not the man his critics think he is. Donate to charity. Hosts events. Be gracious as he can be to media. And very importantly, pitch lights out. If not, my guess is he won't be here for long anyway.
Nobody is actually making light of or excusing violence, humor is one route humans use to deal with uncomfortable/bad situations. Sorry that offended you. No need to reply, I heard the all caps the first time.
It's also recency bias. This is still fresh as Osuna joins the team while he was still serving his suspension. I might be wrong but all the other guys @Nook referenced didn't join during suspension or investigation.
You are correct. Astacio had punched his pregnant wife in the stomach less than a year early. The Rockies did not discipline him and neither did MLB. As for Myers, he beat his wife's face in front of witness 3-4 years earlier than when he joined the Astros.
For those saying "her being a fan for 30 years and not quitting after other DV abusers were added to the team is okay because she might have been a kid back then and felt differently" Then why can't it be okay for your kids? I think you guys are putting a lot of effort into believing kids these days are going to come to the same conclusions as this forum. "Osuna, hes awesome! It doesn't matter that he beats women, teams like you if you are good enough!" what kids are thinking like that? Kobe Bryant was chaged with ****ing RAPE. Yet we don't care that our kids fade away crumpled paper into the trash bin shouting his name. There are much more important things to do in raising our kids and teaching them lessons than the closer on a baseball team, not even the face of the baseball team.. People just throwing their kid's futures out there to gain more empathy from commenters "co-signing"
I think one reason the media is piling on is because of the Astros "zero tolerance" policy wrt domestic violence issues. Have the Astros always had a zero tolerance policy? Also, what does zero tolerance mean to the Astros and to fans? I think it means that you are not afforded warnings for breaking a policy and are immediately disciplined. Depending on the situation/industry that could mean a lot of things. Overall, I hate that the media and other fans are dragging an otherwise stellar group of players through the mud. To me, a lot of it is faux outrage. It is just the way things are now. That's not to diminish what Osuna has been *accused* of doing. It should get attention and he should pay the price if he's found guilty. Even if he's not he'll have to take steps to overcome what will undoubtedly be a negative public perception. At the end of the day though, it is completely possible to hate/dislike Osuna and still root for the team. Afterall, humans are complex beings capable of complex emotions/thoughts, right?
Well, if you ask the national media and many posters on this forum, he beat the **** out of her, even though there are really only a small handful of people who know exactly what really happened. I'm hopeful that is not the case. We just need the facts to come out first, but there are so many people whose minds are already made up.
