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#WALKAWAY ?????

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by cml750, Jul 3, 2018.

  1. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    In short, I'm not wrong, you are just defending them because some of their stated goals are similar to your own....it's a tribalism issue. You ignore the fact that they are socialists in order to focus on the overlap between your ideology and theirs....and that's what they want people like you to do.

    The stated goal of the DSA is to end capitalism and replace it with socialism. That's not a strawman, that's their own stated goals.

    The only 2 options here are that she is a moron that doesn't understand that the group she's proudly a member of has the stated goal of ultimately ending capitalism and replacing it with socialism and that she isn't really a Democratic Socialist or that she is really a Democratic Socialist and she shares that goal.

    Of course her suggesting that she doesn't share that goal is similar to the proud KKK member suggesting that they aren't racist and that they don't think that the KKK is racist either. It's simply not believable.

    It really, really is, and they aren't shy about it. They even admit that their goal of ending capitalism isn't one they can accomplish soon so they say that they need to keep working towards it slowly so that they can get there one day.

    Then you used it inaccurately, which is something fairly common these days.

    No one is making that mistake other than you. Not all socialists are Stalinists, but all Socialists wish to see the end of capitalism and see it replaced by socialism. They don't all want to end capitalism the same way, but they all want to end it....or they aren't socialists.

    No, I've never suggested that either of them are Stalinists, but at least Ocasio is a Socialist...Bernie just seems to be a really confused old man that doesn't seem to know what he is.
     
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  2. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    This will be my last post on this issue...

    The point, as stated above, is that the DSA is a big tent organization. This not just comes from me. It comes from them. Here is Cornell West, an honorary chair of the DSA, explaining over and over again that the group merely just accepts all people that believe in their common goal. That common goal is as he says...to protect workers and minorities. This is the actual goal stated on their About page. He states time and again that people in the DSA disagree with each other about any particular issue. He said himself he's not for open borders...but there are some that are

    Here. It's Fox news...so our friends @Bobbythegreat and @cml750 should be happy to watch it and see a member of the DSA themself explain what I've been saying over and over again.



    No, nowhere on their site it says that.

    Or option 3, she's part of a bit tent organization and doesn't believe everything you think it stands for.

    You are all over the place man. One moment you say they secretly want to and the next they boldly want to. Which is it? Can't be both.

    Well, you haven't used any of these terms correctly.

    You seem to not understand the basic premise of something belonging to an ideology but not encompassing all of that ideology?

    It's like you can be a Nationalist but a White Nationalist is BENEATH just being a nationalist. Obviously then a White Nationalist would not agree with all of what a Nationalist believes. Same thing here, this is basic stuff.

    So saying Ocasio is a socialist is correct. It does NOT make her a Stalinist that wants to take over the country and end private business.

    Except, no. That's not true. As stated before, the prominent Swedish Prime Minister DID NOT. Social Democrats like Bernie and Ocasio DO NOT...yet they are also SOCIALISTS. Want proof? Pull up the page for Socialism in Wiki...now don't read, it's a lot to read...search the term "SOCIAL DEMOCRAT" and see what comes up.

    Not like it matters though, you'll attack them all the same. This charade that you think Social Democrats are acceptable is curious though. I'll remember that next time we are talking about Healthcare that it's just a social democrat stance and is completely compatible with captialism, so why argue against it?

    You continue to do so when you continue to say they secretly want to end the private market. Even earlier you suggested that Democratic Socialists aren't even democratic, that they will become communist in time...which defeats the whole purpose of them being democratic socialists in the first place lol.

    Finally, I NEVER expected EITHER of you ( @Bobbythegreat / @cml750 ) to agree with me. As mentioned before by Crowder, it comes down to what you believe is the responsibility of government. Period. I'm only trying to explain the position but I see now it is fruitless, no matter what you believe in, no matter what you say, you'll be lumped into being a Stalinist socialist. Even if you are a Social Democrat you want to secretly become a Stalinist, so why bother really? I'll just assume that everyone to the right of me are secretly racist, this is a good way to have political discourse. To ignore what people are telling you is their stance and instead to take a paranoid view of it.
     
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  3. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I don't think that anyone was suggesting that the DSA wouldn't appreciate "useful idiots" to help push their agenda....and their primary goal is the long term elimination of the capitalist system and the establishment of a socialist system. When they say their goal is "to protect workers and minorities" that's just another way of saying the establishment of socialism because socialists believe that capitalism exploits workers and minorities.

    Seriously, you need to educate yourself on this.

    Yeah it really does, when it says "In the short term we can’t eliminate private corporations" it is implying that the long term goal is to eliminate private corporations. When it says "As we are unlikely to see an immediate end to capitalism tomorrow, DSA fights for reforms today that will weaken the power of corporations and increase the power of working people." it's suggesting that they'd love to end capitalism tomorrow, but they know they can't so they want to work towards that goal.

    Sorry guy, you are just straight up wrong here.

    That's not really a different option, that's option 1, that she's a moron who supports an organization that has beliefs directly in opposition to what she wants long term. I don't really buy it.

    Literally no one suggested that she was a Stalinist, just a socialist and all socialists wish to end capitalism and replace it with socialism. Again, if you don't know any better than that, I suggest you educate yourself.

    He never got the chance to because he was assassinated and as a result of his policies the country fell into a pretty harsh recession and had to rework their system to get out of it and become the successful country they are today.

    It's no secret that I'm not a fan of Social Democrats but they are still capitalists which makes them infinitely more acceptable than ANY socialist. There's a massive difference between arguing about specific policy within a capitalist framework and advocating for socialism to replace capitalism. I hope you can understand that.

    It's not a secret, I've posted you a few times that they admit to wanting to end the private market straight from their own webpage.

    As to them not being democratic, well they are to start with but there's only 2 things that can happen in ANY socialist system, either they retreat from socialism or they become communist. The problems that socialism causes always leads countries to one of those 2 directions....and the communist direction is the most common because normally governments oppose giving up power.
     
  4. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    No Worries likes this.
  5. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    That wouldn't surprise me in the least, KC. trump has done nothing to prevent it. We have high ranking military people testifying before Republican dominated committee hearings about the subject, and they have flatly said that they have received no guidance from the White House. Zero. I'm sure trump's ardent supporters could care less, though. When we were saying that the 2016 elections were attacked by a hostile foreign power, Russia, the same people said, "No way! That's bullshit. Where's your proof? Some made up British spy crap?" And blah, blah blah.

    The Republican Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee issues a bipartisan report saying that yes, Russia did attack the 2016 elections, and what it their response? "Oh, that doesn't matter. The Dems would have lost anyway." And blah, blah, blah. More bullshit, since 30,000 votes in a handful of states could have swung the election to Ms. Clinton. They don't care that trump has done nothing to prevent a repeat performance by Russian intelligence. They don't care! So what does that tell me? Despite all their babbling about the Constitution and the Republic, the truth is that they simply don't give a good ******* about it. As long as their hero benefits, they could care less about the damage to our democracy, and the democracies that are our allies and friends, whose elections are also under assault by Putin's Russia.
     
  6. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Why not check out the Democratic Socialists of America in Houston or Austin or in your town.
    (I would suggest the General Meeting. Usually 60-80 folks attend.)​


    Houston DSA Reading Group: Criminal Justice Reform & The New Jim Crow, Pt. 3 @ Bohemeos

    Mon Jul 9 @ 7:00 pm – 9:00 pm

    July 2018 General Meeting @ The Montrose Center, Rm 106

    Thurs Jul 12 @ 7:00 pm – 9:00 pm


    July Eco-Socialist Working Group Meeting @ Sherman Elementary

    Jul 16 @ 6:00 pm – 8:00 pm
    /
     
  7. fiersdownbelow

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  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/russian-trolls-walkaway-movement/

    Some of these are more convincing than others but this one is pure gold.

    Also, this campaign has a high chance of backfiring against Republicans thinking the 2018 midterms are comfortablely won.
     
  9. fiersdownbelow

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    I myself #WalkedAway in 2007... it's a very real thing actually. You are only pushing more independents and democrats into the arms of Trump with this hysterical "muh Russia" conspiracy theory. Why not act like men and take responsibility for your party's own shortcomings? That is the only way you will win in 2020. "Putin's puppet rofl" is not going to get you anywhere. But by all means keep deflecting.
     
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  10. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Hey, @fchowd0311 man chill out. Don't you see that if you oppose them or talk about Russian bots at all you only make them stronger? (I mean, not like America is the ONLY country reporting on this...) Stop opposing God King Trump man, every time you do a supposedly principled liberal loses all of their principles and flips!
     
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  11. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    Russia isn't a conspiracy theory, and we all know some people will leave the Democrats the same as some people will leave the Republican party. Both parties change and so do people.
     
  12. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Russia trying to influence the election isn't conspiracy theory, but calling everyone that disagrees with Democrats a bot and trying to link Trump to the Russians is conspiracy theory....and frankly, it's wishful thinking. The Democrats don't want to take any responsibility for ******** the bed the last several elections so they just blame everything on Russian bots and "collusion" so they can pretend like their actions hasn't turned the country against them.
     
  13. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    You seem a wishful thinker.

    Nobody is doing the first. The 2nd, Trump managed to do on his own with company he has kept and the lies he spews.
     
  14. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Uh huh...whatever you say kiddo. At some point reality will sink in I'm guessing.
     
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  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    What's amazing is if I felt that a poltical party I affiliated with was not agreeing with my principles anymore and that made walk over and worship a divisive imbecile who lacks complete nuance in any subject matter he ***** out of his mouth, I would have enough self awareness in me to realize that I have some reasoning issues.

    Disagreeing with the Democratic party and worshiping Trump is quite the jump and very unnecessary.

    I can see voter turnout being an issue for Dems but those people magically turning into Trump acolytes. Ya that is Russian trolls .
     
  16. TheresTheDagger

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    What makes you think that is what's occurring? The theme is #WALKAWAY not #WALKAWAYFROMDEMSTOTRUMP.

    Believe it or not, it is actually a thing to be embarrassed by Trump's antics while at the same time appalled by the left and their antics as well.
     
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  17. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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  18. cml750

    cml750 Member

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    Bobbythegreat likes this.
  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Because a plethora of these #WALKAWAY testimonials jump to praising Trump.
     
  20. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member

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    This is what is known as projecting.

    We have solid data backing up the astroturfing of the #walkaway movement, yet here you are pitching that as some type of conspiracy theory.

    Are there disaffected Democrats? Absolutely. Is it as big of a deal as the twittersphere wants you to think it is? Nope.
     

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