Interesting to watch the evolution of the argument -- 'You've provided no proof -- there was no collusion, but if proof is provided it doesn't matter because it wouldn't have made a difference in the election anyway because the democrats ran a terrible campaign. Also the US manipulates other countries elections all the time so stop attacking the president.'
Yes, that's exactly what Democratic Socialism is, perhaps you are thinking of Social Democracy instead. Social Democrats are capitalists who support social programs in a capitalist democracy, Democratic Socialists oppose capitalism and want to rise to power via democratic means (like Hugo Chavez did) in order to tear down the capitalist structure by the state seizing the means of production. So perhaps you should brush up on your terminology. "Democratic Socialists" are outright socialists, the only real difference is that they believe that it can be attained via democratic means while old school Marxists believed that it had to be attained via violent revolution. It's just a repackage of the same failed policies that leads to shortage, starvation, and poverty everywhere it is tried. At it's core it is the same ideology that killed well over 100 million people in the 20th century....arguably the most deadly ideology that ever plagued this world.
Look, all of this is correct but it ignores one crucial fact. That many of those democrats literally dropped their party to become southern republicans. They voted as Democrats though, this is when the parties 'flipped' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrats So you can't bring up the voting record on civil rights without acknowledging this fact first. You then can't throw that quote at me without mentioning the Southern Strategy and all the quotes in reference to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism#Modern_democratic_socialism "Democratic socialists oppose the Stalinist political system and Soviet economic model, rejecting the authoritarian form of governance and highly centralized command economythat took form in the Soviet Union in the early 20th century." No, you need to understand your opponents more than to drivel them down to one term without actually understanding their REAL positions. This is why their party continues to grow, because you think you can just call them socialists and be done with it while they meanwhile bring strength to the term but saying "You know what, we are, we just want to give you free healthcare, if that makes us socialists then so what?" Just like all the liberals who ran around calling everyone racist, you and many on the right use the same tactic. So now the word has lost all meaning. Congratulations. Parties are not what they call themselves, they are their positions, learn them, actually argue against their positions and explain why they are bad then just going "SOCIALIST!" and being done with it. What you are basically saying is that Bernie Sanders and people like him, like Ocasio, are as bad as Stalin and just like the "Trump is Hitler" people, no one will believe you and roll their eyes at you. Just a warning I guess.
What you posted doesn't dispute what I said. Democratic Socialists are advocates for destroying the capitalist system and instituting a socialist system where the means of production are controlled by the state.....they just add a step where there are elections.....at least at first. Socialism is a system that has been 100% proven to lead to nothing but catastrophe and human suffering....so if you want to say "You know what, we are, we are Socialists" it's a whole lot like saying "You know what, we are, we are Nazis". The honesty is refreshing, but it doesn't make them any better or more intelligent people. I have no doubt that they'll try to sucker in stupid people by suggesting all they want is to give away "free stuff", but the history of Socialism proves what that path leads to. What's really funny is that since that history is so completely against them they are forced to point to capitalist systems that use a fairly similar sounding name in order to point to ANY successes in the history of the ideology. You'll hear people talk about the Nordic System in defense of Socialism, but that's a Social Democracy....meaning a capitalist system NOT a Socialist system. I believe you when you say that there will be people dumb enough to buy in to Socialism yet again, but that's really just why it is arguably the most deadly political ideology in the history of the world. Stupid people love it....and then they suffer and die once they get it.
It literally says the opposite of this man. It literally says they are against both of these things. "Democratic socialists oppose the Stalinist political system and Soviet economic model, rejecting the authoritarian form of governance and highly centralized command economy that took form in the Soviet Union in the early 20th century." Either you are being dishonest or you just don't know what the phrase "Rejecting authoritarian form of governance and COMMAND ECONOMY means." Either you don't know what these things mean and in that case, click the link, or you are just being dishonest and instead will just make up your own definition for it. Again, have fun arguing these strawmen. People like Bernie and Ocasio are neither. Just like the "Trump is HITLER" people you are only going to pull more people to their side by lying about their political views instead of tackling them head-on. It doesn't matter. If you want to be technical about it, this is EXACTLY what Berniecrats are. EXACTLY. But you'll still call them socialists and you are still vehemently against such policies so don't try to act like you think of them as rational policies now. You sure don't act like it when these policies are discussed here. In fact, on the page for this very term it notes Bernie Sanders as a notable Social Democrat. So maybe instead of going on about Stalin-esque socialism every time you get the chance to, understand that you have no opponents before you. No one is arguing for the government to take over the farms and production of cheese. Chill.
Sorry, did you just say that the Russians were trying to help Clinton? Did you just say that? Why is it that Republicans are saying Putin was trying to help Trump? Are you saying the Republicans should STFU and stop scapegoating Russians for helping them win? I think you are a confused young man.
That's the repackaging that I spoke of. They prefer a version of Socialism with some Democracy thrown in the mix at least in the beginning.....but again they are still for destroying the capitalist system and public ownership of the means of production which always leads to shortage, poverty, and starvation. They are Socialists and that's what I have called them. You might not realize that Socialists are awful, but I blame the education system of this country for that more than anything else. Bernie hedges a lot more than Ocasio by sometimes pretending to just be a Social Democrat, but Ocasio is an outright and admitted Socialist who wishes to end capitalism. It's not unfair or lying about them to describe them as such. I call them Socialists because that's what they call themselves. It's true that Bernie says a lot of contradictory things sometimes claiming to be a Democratic Socialist sometimes claiming to be a Social Democrat as if he doesn't know the difference between the 2 and unfortunately you see a lot of that among the Bernie Bros too. People like Ocasio on the other hand freely admit to being outright Socialists....so your attempt to make it seem as if I am labeling them something inaccurate won't really work here. For the most part, until recently they knew they couldn't sell Democratic Socialism so they pretended to be Social Democrats, the new crop are being more honest about it. That's simply not accurate. While Bernie often goes back and forth between the two and would never be so bold as to come out against capitalism completely, that's not the case with Ocasio and the DSA, they believe in social ownership of the means of production and the collapse of capitalism.... I mean just listen to their chants at their rallies "No ICE, no wall, no USA at all"...they are flat out spelling out their platform and even if it sounds pants on head r****ded it's not a strawman to point out their platform.
Lol, no, that's what it literally says there. You are the one repackaging it. It's unfair to act like they are Stalin incarnate... No, she is not. Quote her. Quote her on her wishes to end capitalism. The only one confused about these things are you actually and not Bernie Sanders. These two ideologies do not contradict one another. One is just more specific than the other. One demands a compromise with capitalism and one does not. Prove to me that she's a socialist that wants to end capitalism. Where does she say or advocate for that? Please show where Bernie has argued for government controlled production of Cheese or control of a similar market since you are saying that isn't accurate. If not Bernie can you find ONE prominent politician...someone that actually holds an office...supporting this position? Can you do that? If you can't then there isn't anything more to say here and I'm not sure I want to listen to more paranoid rants about how the Democrats are all turning into Stalin-esque socialists. Not some chant, not some random twitter user or some random talking head, an actual known member of the democratic party that has some power.
.....You can't be a Democratic Socialist if you believe in Capitalism. It would be like asking me to prove to you that a vegan doesn't want you to order them the ribeye. She is a member of the DSA which is an anti-capitalist organization that hopes to end capitalism in order to realize the workers paradise that all Socialists believe in. If you look up their Wiki, you'll see "The DSA regards the end of capitalism and the realization of socialism as a gradual long-term goal, therefore the organization focuses its immediate political energies on reforms within capitalism that empower working people while decreasing the power of corporations" Again, it's just a slower moving more democratic version of the same BS we always see from Socialists
You don't know what a Democratic socialist is. They don't support community ownership of all businesses. They do support capitalism and also support things like Social Security, Medicare for all etc. But they are in favor of privatized ownership of most businesses.
I think clearly you don't, Democratic Socialists are inherently anti-capitalist...I think you are confusing them for Social Democrats. I know the names sound similar, but they are very different. Social Democracy is what the Nordic System is, a capitalist system that embraces social programs. Democratic Socialists are socialists that oppose capitalism and seek to destroy the capitalist system and slowly replace it with Socialism. I think Bernie has people like you confused by using the 2 terms as if they are interchangeable. They are not.
Close, but that isn't HER position. Right before your quote... "The DSA members have views ranging from eco-socialism,[109] democratic socialism, revolutionary socialism,[110]libertarian socialism[111] and communism[112] to social democracy. Some of these views are represented in different working groups and caucuses within the DSA including the Communist Caucus, the Refoundation Caucus and the Libertarian Socialist Caucus." She is admittedly in her own words, a Democratic Socialist. She has positions. None of them are what you say they are.
I think you are confused using socialism as synonymous with Democratic Socialism. Either way, it is a ridiculous argument. All we have to do is look at her policy on the issues. The labeling thing is played out.
You still can't get past the part where Democratic Socialism is inherently anti-capitalist....all Socialism is. The differences in opinion are about how quickly capitalism is ended, not if the goal is for it to be ended. I know you want to go to bat for her, but she really is a fringe left lunatic....or she's a moron who doesn't understand her own views. Either way, it's pretty bad. Democratic Socialism is a type of Socialism even if you don't know enough to realize it. The primary difference between Marxist socialism and Democratic Socialism is that in Marx's system you have to violently overthrow the capitalist system, in Democratic Socialism you get voted in and overthrow the capitalist system more slowly and with less central planning....at least at first. Seriously guys, learn what the hell you are talking about, this is embarrassing. Stop calling Social Democracy Democratic Socialism. One is what you are actually in favor of, the other is Socialism.
Except for Social Democrats, which both Bernie and she is. They are also Democratic Socialists, there is no contradiction there. They are not anti-capitalists. The difference of opinion is how much, not how slowly. Do you not realize that Social Democracy is also socialism? It seems like you don't.
I mean the thumbnail for that video is Bernie Sanders over the hammer and sickle...so I'm not sure that is an unbiased and fair analysis of Sanders positions.
LOL, you literally can't be both if you are intelligent enough to know what they are. Bernie really screwed you crazy kids up. Social Democrats are Capitalists, Democratic Socialists are Socialists. They are 2 completely opposed systems.....you can't be both. No, it really isn't. Again, you guys don't even know your own ideology, how sad is that? Social Democracy is a capitalist system.
