The reality is this. What does border enforcement have to so with separation of parent and child? We can have border enforcement without forceable separation of families. The majority of these people are essentially committing the nonviolent crime of crossing the border. Why does that necessitate separation of parent and child? If you are stopped by a cop and given a ticket for going over the speed limit are you forced to be separated from your children? Somehow separating families is a deterrent? It's just a needless act. Whether or not it exists they're going to come. These people have hit rock bottom in their home countries. I was reading this thread earlier
You keep on equatimg the crime of tresspasing because the family sees that as the best option for their family and children to any other traditional crimes such as theft, assault, homicide etc. It's why previous adminstrations, even GOP adminstrations rather have these familes go through a civil process because their "intent" isn't some neferous attempt but rather an intent from legitmate harship. You can deport them... together. You don't have to criminally prosecute them and on top of that waste tax payer money in the criminal courts and prison system.
None of this was a response to my question of irrepreble harm which I thought was a significant accusation. Anything to say about that. I would say if I was pulled over and had crack in my car with two babies I would be instantly separated for that non violent crime. Or if I hopped over a fence in RiverOaks and it didn't happen to be BigTex's estate I would be separated as well. If I hop the wall at the Vatican.
Punishments are deterrents. You like paying speeding tickets? I simply want to know what the punishment would be if we just spent a ton of money processing and deporting illegal aliens we catch.
First, thanks for indulging me. I mean that. . Since you haven't said otherwise, I can assume the "civil process" was catch and release. If so that means we would deport if they actually showed up for their deportation hearing....which the vast majority didn't. In other words....essentially pointless to stop anyone with kids who was illegal and had no intention of being deported since they would disappear into the country. Interesting. Do you have a link that speaks to this? It seems rather harsh (although potentially effective) to criminally prosecute and imprison every single illegal alien?
You can't be serious? Using hard substances while taking care of children is legitmate child negligence. Having a desire and skip a 15 year waiting lrocepr to escape a shithole is a legitmate desire that I'm sure you would have if you weren't lucky enough to slip out of a vagina that happened to be within the borders of a modern developed nation
Sigh. You didn't read the article did you? It explicitly stated that they would go through the deportation procedure under a civil process and not charge them with a crime. "Until the policy was announced in April, such families were usually referred for civil deportation proceedings, not requiring separation." -nyt article .
For every violation that is as harmless as crossing over the border illegally, forcibly separating young children in the same manner being done here would be a big deal.
I didn't say using drugs. slip right ahead of people waiting in line doesn't seem like a logical solution so this is simply a call for open borders I disagree with. The other question I asked seemed more interesting. You are clearly off if you think people are never put away for non violent crimes.
That wasn't an answer. Well, just as you said, it's a crime. When you are caught committing a crime with your kid, you are separated from the kid while you are detained. It's not seen as a big deal and if the DNC wasn't pushing this narrative, you wouldn't think it was a big deal when the exact same thing happens to illegal immigrants when they are caught committing a crime with their kid. That's a false equivalence. A speeding ticket in nearly all cases isn't on the same level as being caught in the country illegally. If you want to compare a first offense for being in the country illegally to a crime behind the wheel it's somewhere between reckless driving and intoxication manslaughter.....and in both of those incidents, you'd be separated from your child while being arrested....and no one would cry for you. The deterrent isn't separating the families for a short period of time, the deterrent is criminally prosecuting people for breaking the law instead of just doing the catch and release thing that encourages them to try again and again. A second offense is on par with intoxication manslaughter and can get them 2 years in jail before they are deported.
We spend more money criminally prosecuting them and imprisomkng them within the US prison system. You think logically not emotionally right? Logically think which process is more expensive. One requires attorneys and signficantly longer placement in detention centers. Deportation is a deterrent. So we just did a full round about and now you agree with the Trump's policy that he vehemently denies that depersting familes is a deterrent and not something that is out of his control?
That's simply a lie....though you probably actually believe it. There's no law a person can break that would get them 6 months in jail where people would whine and cry about them not getting to take their kid to county with them. People go to jail every day for less harmful things than illegally entering the country.....hell possession of less than 2 ounces of mar1juana can get you 6 months in county and no one cries for them when they get arrested and they are separated from their kids because the DNC isn't trying to use that as a wedge issue for the upcoming election. The ONLY reason you think you care about this is because it's been described to you in a dishonest manner and you've been told that you should care about it.
People who are imprisoned for non violent offenses are usually multiple time offenders. Also, the "cut in line" narrative is merely a narrative. There are multiple types of lines on the immigration process and most of those lines involve some form of merit and opportunity that many of these families simply don't have or many of these familes have a more urgent need as they need asylum from legitmate violence. For example, my parents were born into educated and wealthy parents in Bangladesh. This allowed them to go to the best private schools in Bangladesh and obtain US student visas which are pretty hard to obtain in these poor third world countries. You have to be top students in those countries' elite private schools. 99% of Bangladeshis have no line to enter. Many of these familes don't have 15 years to wait before they are victims.
The link provided was a paid link. I only was able to read what you quoted. Just FYI. So catch and release, right? So the charging of the crime was to allow for detention rather than catch and release correct? And because children can't be placed in to detention, they are separated from their families/guardians in these cases. Correct?
Deportation doesn't seem to be a deterrent. Obama did that and we still have hoards of people as evidenced by the arrests. If punishment costs more than deportation we are buying extra deterrence for our money. The media is reporting the situation so we can see if the numbers drop or not. I never thought Trump believed that in the first place, I believe I made a post saying that a few days ago. I think the point was if we arrest, allow the children to stay together.
That's a real shame but many of these claims have been reported as being BS and just economic migrants. Not anything like a Coptic requesting asylum. So in this case those without merit or opportunity should never be allowed in above those who were educated in the USA or paid thousands to attorneys and USCIS. It's much less expensive to correct poverty in other countries. Also much more beneficial to the country.
Where in the quote does it mention "catch and release"? Again - "Until the policy was announced in April, such families were usually referred for civil deportation proceedings, not requiring separation."
