Yeah it's clearly a ****ed up policy of deterrence, and it deters no one. I'm not denying that. I also think the justifications by the administration are beyond comical by trying to say there is some sort of religious justification. I don't know why they don't bluntly state their argument and for what it's worth it is a valid argument to actually try to control illegal immigration. I'm just saying that it's irresponsible to compare policies like this to other American policies that have resulted in life imprisonment or mass death. I'll reserve evil for other issues because I don't want to water down evil. For myself I'm pretty open borders. I liked these debates and I thought they were based in common sense and it's really kind of ridiculous that these common sense discussions were happening almost 40 years ago. All that being said I think you and I and everyone who is more liberal must recognize that not everyone is like us and also that there are consequences to us being more liberal with border policies. This has been a constant balancing act in American society and conservatives are a large part of every society. They will tend to want tighter borders and clearly defined lines between America and other nations. Also, America has by far the largest illegal immigrant population in the world. It has been this way for a long time and this rubs conservative people the wrong way. Also, having borders and enforcing borders doesn't make someone racist or evil. Many countries have tight border enforcement, but we have become comfortable with our relatively relaxed border security. Other administrations prior to Trump have executed more lethal coercion strategies. My point is I'm trying to understand the other side and I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of it even if I didn't explain it too effectively. There are some excellent lectures I've studied about the value of conservatives versus the value of liberals that really helped me to recognize what each brings to the table. Ok it's waaay too late to be trying to write all this. Hope that came off mildly decent.
I'm in agreement that the War on Terror and Drugs have been disastrous in term of it's failure, not achieving the intended goals, spreading more terror, causing a raise in drug lords, destabilizing regions (ME, Central America), causing more drug problems, reducing freedom here and causing much harms to many that are innocents or minor offenders at a huge cost. But as pointed out, a key distinction is the one being targeted. War on terror, drug wars targeted those that are drug users, all the way up to terrorists leaders and drug lords. What we have here is targeting family, parent and children, who are fleeing horrible situation for a better lives. They are desperate. They aren't real criminals - we all know this. This is why it's disgusting and it's an evil. Someone said it best - the real character of a person and a nation is how we treat the most powerless. 18 months old... Allow and normalize this and it will grow into something much bigger and much more horrible. It has to stop. EDIT: This admin has seen that this Congress is unwilling to step in and do their job to check the executive branch. The court might or might not be able to stop this admin. Don't make any assumption that it will go away, or this admin will suddenly change its tune. Sessions has already pushed back against conservative religious leaders. The only sure way is restore Congress to a functional body that check the executive branch and remove these people from the WH.
Yeah I suppose I disagree. I don't know I'd say the worst in my life, but definitely worth singling out. Yeah the same old saw you've been going on about forever.
Just consequences for breaking the law would not be cruel. These consequences are a textbook example of unjust consequences. These children did nothing wrong at all. You are excusing cruelty.
The children of criminals who have their parents thrown in prison for their crimes always end up suffering for it. If the children aren't legally in the country either, it creates a bigger problem. No one told these people to disregard the law and put their families in this situation, they chose to do so, thus the consequences are on the parents who clearly cared nothing about their families, not on those enforcing the law.
As it turns out, the Bush/Carter thing was actually about the Sandistas -- of Nicaragua. Swing and miss. Also, it's been like 40 years. Even the 2,000-5,000 refugees before 2014 was quite high and alarming.
