Why Would an Intelligent Christian Vote for Trump?

You obviously didn't really even read what I said, or care to comprehend any type of point. If you don't like the direction of the Democratic party, its at the point NOW where it is to re-shape it in the direction you'd like it to go?

What other option do you have? Do you know of a third party to vote for that can actually win in 2018 as a third party who can take a majority of Congress?

I'm not asking you to vote for "The Democratic Party" forever. I'm asking YOU or people that believe in basic fundamentals of Democracy & decency to get involved and make either of the two parties into a party that works for the American people. Not for the Oligarchs or for other countries that have interest in tearing down our system.

So again.... if you won't vote for a Democrat in 2018, or at least vote for Beto (who hasn't taken a dime of special interest $) here in Texas (assuming you live here), who will you vote for? Because not showing up out of disgust in the "both sides suck" argument puts Ted Cruz & his NRA money back in his seat to continue to screw with our state. My wife is a teacher here in TX and has lost nearly all of her teacher benefits due to that jackass and Greg Abbott. I get that you feel like Hillary is just as bad as Trump, etc. but there are still local level elections that matter, and you're entire thesis here affects the narrative that ultimately suppressed voter turnout, and allows for more special interests to need to get involved to get money to reach people like you who probably won't get involved or show up to vote regardless because its easier to say "both sides suck" instead of actually getting involved and doing something about it.

It doesn't even have to be the "Democrats". Get involved with the Republican party and try and change that apparatus for the better. I don't care. Just don't sit there and say "They both suck". Thats Bullshit man. This is voter suppression propaganda.

 

"What other options do you have?" lol Land of the free, Baby!

I teach college English: rhetoric and argumentation. I tell my students to vote, but not how to vote. I teach hundreds of young people how to make and dissect argument, including political argument. This improves the electorate. What do you do? Seriously.

I agree that local elections matter. But I'm not looking at party affiliation any longer.

You and I are just coming from different places. I do believe that the two-party system has reached the point of failure. We are a warmongering ******* country with unfathomable debt. Suicide has gone up 25% in the past two decades, and it's because our society is ugly and the future is even uglier. The problem is not that voters are not passionate enough to vote; it's that a great many people are too ignorant to vote. People are too busy to know about TPP or whatever. I don't know how to solve the problem. But our country has been stolen from us, and I am allowed to say that. You want to shut me up, but I am going to keep saying it. Both parties have failed, and it is time for very strong action by the people, to change the entire system. Voting "D" or "R" got us to where we are today: Suicide Alley.

 

The real reason.

8 years of a black president got people SHOOK

 

Ya Dude! If he doesn't choose blue or red, he is a Russian bot! I'm an American and you have no basis for evaluating my level of knowledge except whether I agree with you or not. You are a great example of how Democrats have become intolerant of dissenting Americans, even ones who voted Democrat in 2016 like I did. I bet you have strong opinions on Coke v. Pepsi too? They both suck. You are the brainwashed one who can only see through blue-colored glasses.

 

Wow.. how depressing. Apparently you are an English scholar who can read but you can’t listen. I’m not trying to establish credibility dominance in an argument just to try and make it look like I’m winning some sort of debate. I’m just a Sales Director here in DFW who manages a dozen or so sales reps in Hou/Atx/dfw. No debate muscles here that I need to flex.

You didn’t listen to anything I said. At all. Nobody said the Two Party system doesn’t suck. Nobody said it has to stay that way. I was only making a pretty obvious point that your sulking attitude you are trying to spread now is contributing to voter suppression.

The country needs a good third or fourth party of needs one party to be remade sure. But right now as we speak Ted Cruz and Gregg Abbott months away from securing another term in power in our state. Youre apparently in education so you should care as much as anyone about what will continue to happen here if people don’t get out to vote.

Either you can find a way to get a third party or independent elected IN NOVEMBER or you can sit here and continue to suppress enough votes with us here and your students to get Abbott and Cruz back in power again for another few more years. Play the victim all you want, but you are part of the problem in the end, and folks like Ted Cruz are paying good money to see folks like you say things like you are saying (see the CA suppression package).

You’re mad at the Democratic Party.. F-ing do something about it. Tell your students to organize and either remake one of our two parties or start their own that better candidates that freakin Gary Johnson and Jill Stein.

 

Now this does seem like a bot response lol.

 

I'm not flexing: you told me to do something politically. I told you I'm doing something politically, by educating students in argumentation, including political argumentation. I told you I tell the students to vote. You ignored that and said I am suppressing the vote, with no basis to say so. I asked you what you are doing politically (because you advocate taking political action), and you said "I'm just a Sales Director."

Somehow you assume that you care about America more than I do.

P.S. What do you sell?

 

I think people are thinking about it too much...

1.) GOP is the White Christians' "team" and has been for a while now.
2.) The reason is because historically, the GOP's stance on issues align more closely with white Christians' stance on the issues
3.) People tend to vote along party lines, usually based on what they have voted historically.

I'm sure there is a subset of white Christians that have a more nuanced reason, and some where maybe it's just completely hypocritical. But I think the three bullets above pretty much explain the root reason for majority of White Christians. Unless I'm missing something, that seems like common sense in this day and age of hyper partisanship.

 

You’re not flexing but you are asking for personal info on me so I’m assuming you can poke holes and try to paint me with lower credibility. I mean that is a debate tactic I’m sure.

To pay the bills, I sell org alignment, talent alignment, etc. basically a consulting firm. Mid sized business that operates as a collection of legacy firms now owned by private equity all in one big mess of a company. I love what I do (especially the coaching side) but I work in the same troubled US worker environment that has caused many to feel disenfranchised.

On the political side, I also do belong to the indivisible group here in my area, My wife is on the board with her teachers union, and were active the past few weeks trying to help get elected the board that isn’t in favor of slashing school funding to lower taxes on corporations that might want to put an office here in town. And of course... I support and donate to Beto.

So nothing shocking or super impressive about my debate muscles. I’m just a guy who thinks that what you are saying today, UN-WITTINGLY leads to voter suppression. I’m glad you say you teach your students to go out and vote, but what you’re saying in the same breath just screams “It doesn’t matter”... which kinda does the same thing.

 

No such thing as Intelligent Christian

To be more specific, it's impossible for a devout religious person of any faith to be intelligent at this point in time.

 

Yes, in my class, attacking the arguer rather than the argument is considered an argumentative fallacy, specifically an ad hominem attack, and it is considered weak. (Trump does it constantly: "Little Marco" etc.) But in this case, it's more valid because you are arguing that I (and you) should be acting; further, you are suggesting that by my action I actually stop people from voting. So my action becomes relevant, as does yours.

I want America to be better, OK? You say I'm suppressing the vote. . . . You're not gonna vote now, because of me? Oh, it's the other dummies on the board who are not gonna vote now, because of me? No one's going to quit voting because of me. That's insulting to whichever voter you have in mind.

I just want to note: you started early in this conversation implying that I am less knowledgeable than you, more brainwashed than you, less "witting" than you. Your only basis for saying so is that I don't endorse either Democrats or Republicans. If only I could be more similar to you, I would be more acceptable to you. That does not sound like the Democratic Party I used to believe in.

I want America to be better. Our "defense" budget is $717,000,000,000 and it pisses me off. We are killing people in at least six countries and it pisses me off. We have an incestuous relationship with our big brother, Israel, and it makes me want to vomit. I am here expressing my opinion in public discourse, which I thought was the American thing to do.

 

??

 

Equally accurate is there is no such thing as an Intelligent secular person.

 

No. I don't think you are a bot that is part of a voter suppression campaign paid for by right wing think tanks or Trump himself. I was joking in that manner, and when I said you were "un-witting" in a serious post early on, I don't necessarily think that makes you un-intelligent. In actuality, I think it makes you perfectly normal to want to be real about "both sides". Which is why the tactic put into the narrative is so effective.

Yes... the Democratic party has a ton of flaws and yes... plenty of things about the party are inherently wrong. Never-ending war promotion being a big one of them. That being said, the statements you made are very much in line with the campaigns out there to suppress voting by creating these both sides narratives.

However the argument itself as it was structured by you, is a big problem, and I'm not going to change on that notion because its a popular stance that you have that ultimately plays into the national narrative & conversation that boiled up in 2016. You voted for HIllary, but a good percentage of the US that think just like you do did not because of the narrative that "both side" are bad and therefore we just disconnect & go watch reality TV or sports. It doesn't make those people stupid because for your own personal mental health & sanity, it would be more enjoyable to say screw it all, and go watch the Texans & forget about how Trump is consolidating power right in front of our faces.

I'm not trying to say vote Democrat for the rest of your life or die. Quite the opposite. Third party candidates would be good for the country. Bernie was good for Hillary as he pushed her positions in a progressive manner. But right now these next few months, the good candidates we actually have this year on the left, need folks like yourself to push them to go out in vote & while we can be critical as hell about the Democratic party, the best candidates still need you to come out and vote. If you don't like the way either party is acting, get involved. Don't just keep pushing this "both sides suck" argument that absolutely 100% is out there as a position to suppress voting.

 

Back to the question of the thread as to "why would an intelligent Christian vote Republican"... its a complex question, but the reality is, a Christian can be intelligent, but still be a fundamentalist who is into Trumpism in a transactional manner.

Fundamentalism in any religion gives the following the ability to either say "X doesn't matter because God is in control" or find a way to modulate every argument that fits the narrative.

Climate Change is the most obvious topic here that the fundamentalism allows for a path for acceptance of GOP policies. Jesus is coming back really REALLY soon so I'm not really concerned about 200 years from now. Also... God is in control, and won't allow anything bad to happen that he doesn't wish to happen so who cares! Pollute away!

This is how it works on pretty much every topic. I've grown up in a fundamentalist Republican home. I know how they can accept just about anything if they have enough time to modulate the argument and figure out what's in it for them.

Christians are very much human in every aspect. Especially here in the US where Christianity is used more for a tool of self gratification & fear comforting than it is as taught by Jesus Christ. So that's how intelligent Christians can still modulate any argument to fit their self interests.

Christians continue to be Republican though.... mostly because of the messaging that comes from propaganda that comes from Evangelist leaders who are just as in bed with the GOP that the NRA or the fossil fuel industry. You have no idea how much negative propaganda is thrown at the Dem party every election about one key issue.... a message that Democrats literally murder babies.

 

I lived in China for many years, and I am well aware of the "everything sucks" argument, because it is very commonly used in China. Supposedly, China doesn't suck, because "everywhere sucks": McDonald's, gun violence, drugs, p*rn, etc.

That is not the argument I am making. I am saying the two-party system is little better than the one-party system, and the idea of a three- or four- or five-party system is near inconceivable to Americans, which just goes to show how traditional and conservative the two-party system is. We need to get away from the two-party system, because it is failing the American people. You and I have both been playing the red-blue game our entire lives! I'm not satisfied with the direction it has taken me. I'm not continuing on this path until I die. America should be better than this.

You want me to DO something. To me, speaking up is doing something. You yourself strongly claim that my words can have an impact. You just think it's a negative impact. I don't.

All right, I will try to be more active with other parts of my body besides my mouth and brain, OK? I can't run for office: I would be ripped to shreds, even for posting stuff like this, much less for my personal history. I am willing to concede that you are more active in the voting process than I am.

 

Pretty easy answer.

Vote for the lesser of two evils.

There is no perfect candidate.

Take your pros and cons and pick someone. This recent election was very easy once you put those pros and cons side by side.

Trump is going to win in a landslide if the left doesn't start organizing their support by their nomination.

 

Lesser? The Russian's guy? What could possibly be worse?