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[Livelihood] Kiss your raise good-bye

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Cohete Rojo, May 28, 2018.

  1. dmoneybangbang

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    Once you realize that labor is global, you’ll get it.
     
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  2. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    must build that wall, thick and tall
     
  3. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    That effer went to my employer and offered to work for 15% less and now he's got my jerb!

    Demand is going down relative to the growth of our economy because employers are finding substitutes for our labor -- automation and offshoring.
     
  4. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    when talking about jobs and employment, who are the "buyers" and who are the "sellers"?
     
  5. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    In labor markets, labor is sold (ie employees sell, employers buy). Hence, when supply goes up (number of workers), price goes down (cost of labor/wages).
     
  6. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    I’ll ask again: if supply and demand theory no longer explains price movement, then what does?
     
  7. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    so employers are cutting jobs because they are hiring cheaper employees?
     
  8. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    This question is not connected to the topic. The topic is not “cutting” jobs.
     
  9. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I don't understand. I just gave you an argument based of supply and demand (and borrowing a bit from Porter's Five Forces).
     
  10. adoo

    adoo Member

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    the demand for US-based labor is lessen when there are less expensive substitutes, such as off shore labor and automation

    the new tax cuts provide HUGE incentives fo Corp to invest more in Cap/Ex to increase productivity. not only is it tax deductible,
    it also helps Corp to find cheaper alternative to US labor.

    some eg,
    • automated check out lines in grocery stores, McDonalds, WholeFoods, etc.
    • robots in warehouses, assembly lines, kitchen, pizza vending machines, etc.
    • help lines (for Intel, HP, Cable providers, etc) based in India, Phillipines, etc.
    • off-shore mfg (iPhones)
    • Autonomous driving is on its way
    • Uber/Lyft replacing cab drivers
     
    #30 adoo, May 29, 2018
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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  11. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    So we agree. Why then the snark and rude behavior from yourself?
     
  12. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    When you zig, cojete zigs.

    FOOLED YOU DUMMY HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Win.
     
  13. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    the topic of this thread is the article you posted right?
     
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  14. dmoneybangbang

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    US labor competes globablly just like how US companies compete globablly.
     
  15. adoo

    adoo Member

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    Corp spend most of that additional cash on
    • Buying back stocks and
    • Buying out other companies
    Then on increasing productivity
     
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  16. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    So then you do understand supply and demand theory. What then happens when demand goes down?
     
  17. superfob

    superfob Mommy WOW! I'm a Big Kid now.

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    Actually productivity demand didn't go down, alternative suppliers selling entered the market, namely off shoring first and now automation.

    In other words, buyers no longer want your American human product (worker).

    Edit: acually I'd posit that demand for productivity is also down or isn't increased because buyers have different options to spend their money on to net returns instead of company growth. This is seen in buybacks and just general reinvesting in the finiancial markets
     
    #37 superfob, May 29, 2018
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  18. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    Offshoring can still be viewed in the context of supply and demand: it is an expansion of the labor supply. Same with immigration.

    A worker here, to compete with the expansion in supply essentially must lower their wages, lower their living conditions, and lower their work-place safety standards.
     
  19. adoo

    adoo Member

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    you're clueless as to the economic law of substitute goods;
    substitute goods, unlike complimentary goods, have a positive cross elasticity on demand.

    like automation, offshore labor is a substitute for US-based labor, as of now, a cheaper alternative for US companies.
    their availability lessens US co's demand for US-based labor

    ur ignorance is such that you lump offshore labor and immigration together---force-fitting a square peg into a circle
     
    #39 adoo, May 29, 2018
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  20. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    When you said Demand, it sounds like human labor demand. But that's not what employer care about. Employer simply demand Works. Works performed may be from any sources (human, machine, virtual machine, software...).

    I think works demand hasn't gone down. With a growing population and more wealth world wide, it's likely has grown and will continue to go up.

    Efficiency and technology are the main factors for driving down human labor demand for SOME segment, while driving up non-human labor demands. Government policies, such as tax incentive for machinery would accelerate this trend (another way Trump fk the people that vote for him).
     

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