Hey, I agree with the article that inverting the post is working, and increasing in use ... (first sentence). And I mentioned the MDA and Ben Simmons vids from this year. Sorry, yes, I took a jab at the writer for using out-dated, 3yr old video of Bogut-era GSW, as his opening case. You know me; I love breaking down bball with vid. I love learning new stuff, so I was disappointed he recycled a vid that I've seen/studied many times before. Bogut was a sublime passer in the post, making him and that GSW era special. I don't think it hurts the article's point at all to say Durant is posting in a different way than Bogut. It still means I agree with the article. I just don't think the read is as captivating if he just says Durant is still posting like he did at OKC...so writer sought out fancy stuff to show us....hence all the Bogut-run stuff. But most importantly, my intent to post is to point out what fancy stuff the writer ended up show us from this year. I think it's fun to point that he chose MDA and Ben Simmons (which were all but one play from this year in the article). Don't you think that's cool we are poster children for new fancy offenses? it's so cool!!!
Curry is prime for the pickens to be posted up by a 6’8” 240 pound Joe Johnson against a 6’3” 180 pound point guard with weak ankles and a gimpy knee. Playoffs is about matchups and mismatches. Joe vs Curry is barbecue chicken every day and twice as much on Sunday. Force the mismatch....even if you have to do a couple of handoffs to get it.
It is bar b que chicken ...... for both guys on the offensive end. Joe can't even slow down Curry defensively.
Ya I'm a dummy because I quoted you saying no one was worried that Greens not going to play during the playoffs.. when everybody with eyes can see that Green minutes went down to zero when Joe came but was still is producing more than Joe both offensively and defensively and were rightly worried. Then you turn it to "JOE'S GOING TO SAVE US" and then go full r****d on me... I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH POST UPS!! I grew up in the 80s and 90s I know the inside out pass is the best for 3 point shooters.. I just dont think Joe's postups is enough to sit Green.. I want Joe to do well! I want the Rockets to do Great! It's just that Joe hasn't been getting it done.. that's all You dummy..
Possibly. Joe Johnson would not be guarding Curry. If the switch, then Curry would try to keep Joe on the perimeter. Joe has to run Curry off the 3-pt line. That would be his job. Others are going to rotate defensively regardless; they would need to do that even if it Tucker is switched to Curry or Luc or Harden or Capela or Ariza or Nene, etc. The trade off would be Curry having 240 pound Joe Johnson leaning on a weak Curry that doesn’t have the greatest power in both ankles and a gimpy knee. Would it not take a little out of him and possibly hinder his shot a little as the game goes on.....as the series goes on? Do you think Curry was exerting energy just sitting out there guarding a spot up shooter in Ariza or Ryan or Gerald. I’ve tried guarding taller players in the post. I would rather go with the non contact of defending the spot up shooter on the perimeter. It’s a plus minus thing. We don’t see it so much right now; the ppp would be higher for Joe Johnson post ups if players would make those wide open 3-point shots it is creating. Guys look so shocked that it’s providing them a 3 with no one within 5 feet. I know CP3, Luc, Ariza have missed so many of them. Can Joe create continuous points for the Rockets team while possibly sticking to every Warrior player and seeing if a tired Curry can bang driving 2 after driving 2 (try to key on running Curry off the 3-pt line). If that doesn’t work....I might try having Joe key on tak8ng away drives at let a tired Curry have his luck at three’s only. I would rather go for giving up 2’s vs 3’s. We shall see. Good point Holic.
cont’d from post #25 Curry was seen as a poor defender. In 14/15 Warriors fans told us Curry had a great DRtg and deserved the MVP. Upon further review, his DRtg was good. Many people thought Curry changed. Then we found out it wasn’t true. LeBron isolated Curry in the post off the Warriors self imposed defensive switch of everything. It exposed Curry. LeBron tried it in 14/15.... why didn’t it work? Supporting cast. Kyrie missed the finals because of the torn knee cap. Tristan defender practically guarded LeBron with Curry when the Cavs went to that play type. In 15/16 the Cavs played Love more at center in the playoffs. Also posting up Curry at times. Curry had nagging leg problems that year. Cavs won. What happened last year? Durant covered the spread that any of those mismatches created by way of causing tremendous mismatches of his own. How will the Rockets win if Durant was too much for the Cavs last year. They had Derrick Williams, Jefferson, JR Smith, Deron Williams, Frye, other lame players while the Rockets will put out there Tucker, Luc, Gerald G, Gordon, Ariza. Much better odds in the Rockets favor over last years Cavs. Quick question. Has anyone ever had a player 5 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier try to post you up? Curry will or should in the form of JJ. He will give him the matador defense and pull the chair treatment on each of those possessions. Curry doesn’t want to exert his energy defending that too much.
If we get to the punt where Johnson is working back to the basket on Curry, the Dubs are gonna send help. The one thing about the Warriors defense. They switch in space and use their length to obfuscate the passing lanes when switching. I can't see any way that they leave Curry out there hanging on to Joe Johnson. Curry will likely front him, forcing a pass over the top and then while the pass is in the air, Curry will switch out to the corner. Just can't see a Curry Johnson matchup at any point. And for that matter, any switch with Curry that turns into an iso is going to draw the Dubs help. They're simply not going to let Curry get torched for a series.
That’s my point. Harden PnR....you send help or Harden eats BBQ chicken (Center)....3-pt shooter gets open. CP3 PnR........you send help or CP3 eats BBQ chicken (Center)..........3-pt shooter gets open. Joe Johnson posting up Curry....you send help or Joe Johnson eats BBQ chicken....3-pt shooter gets open. Your point on the defense is valid. Joe Johnson guarding Curry via forced switch. Curry goes to perimeter. Rockets will send help.....3-pt shooter gets open. Rockets are just as long as Warriors. Warriors average heaight is 203.7 cm (1st in the league)....Rockets are 4th at 202.5 cm. Both about 6’7”. Playoffs is about mismatches. Johnson creates a mismatch on Curry and Cook. Truthfully the best strategy will be to mix it up. Players destroys Curry in the post one play and then the Warriors send help two plays and then Curry by himself defending. Joe Johnson gets help defense one play on Curry on the perimeter and then on help for two plays and then help for two plays. We won’t know it until they are on the court. If playtypes are bullets, I would rather have 3 bullets (Iso/PnR/Post Up) over just 2 bullets (just iso/PnR) in the gun. I do not like Joe Johnson on the court vs Westbrook. Westbrook makes Curry look slow. Where Curry has good handles, Curry can be run off the 3-pt line and be met by a help defender.....Westbrook run off the 3-pt line is a blur dunking the ball and picking up a foul. I would only post up Joe Johnson vs Abrines or Felton. The others are too athletic: Grant is too tall and recovers too well after being bumped. Westbrook is too athletic and recovers too well after being bumped. Brewer can still get up and block Joe. Melo holds his ground. Unless the idea is to just get Westbrook leaning on a 240 pound man to possibly get a foul or two reaching in or wear him down a tab in the first half in hopes of Westbrook getting a tad tired in the fourth. Westbrook is an energizer bunny but he shoots brick from tip off on. Joe might take some of the starch off Westbrook’s shot in the fourth quarter. The purpose is not always Joe Johnson points. It might be wearing down Curry or creating points for other players. In a prize fight, the body punch in the first or second round didn’t end the fight.....but it may contribute to the fight ending in the 8th round instead of going the distance. Body punch to the Warriors may be attacking Curry in the post.....post ups being a body punch. Curry has two weak ankles and a gimpy left knee. I’m testing him. On defense preventing Curry from going left to that left corner 3. I’m not talking Joe Johnson the whole game. More like 10-15 possessions......maybe. If he is hurting the team pull him. A 5-Point win vs the Warriors might be attributed to the 10-15 possessions Joe worked over on Curry in the first half. I still see room for Gerald Green getting 20 mins to Joe Johnson’s 10-15 mins. If Joe Johnson isn’t getting Post ups then he has no business being out there....imo.
cont’d from post #28 @basketballholic So Joe Johnson is BBQ chicken vs Curry CP3 is 6’1 vs Livingston 6’7”. BBQ chicken in the post. Do you not play CP3 at all? CP3 vs Durant 6’11”. BBQ chicken in the post. Do you not play CP3 at all? CP3 vs David West 6’10”. BBQ chicken in the post. Do you not play CP3? MeGee is 7’0” tall Harden is 6’5”. BBQ chicken for Harden on the perimeter. Do they not play MeGee? West guarding CP3 in iso. BBQ chicken for CP3 on the perimeter. Do they not play West? How much will Joe provide will determine how much playing time for Joe johnson, if any.
Me too. Personally I think the teammates don’t know how to compliment or incorporate Joe into this run and gun system. They all run these play types growing up, at every level. Just a mindset thing. Sometimes both CP3 and Harden forget that when Joe is in there....get him in the post. He is shooting 27% from 3. His man is going to leave him and help against Harden or CP3 in the paint. If he is not in the post 10 out of the 12 possessions he is out there, then get him out. Frankly I think Jose Johnson is not use to posting up these lighter guys. Like no resistance as he bumps them once and these guys go flying and Joe over shoots as he leans in too much. He doesn’t realize his 240 pounds just need to bump them once and he has an 8 footer wide open or bank shot all day. Little hook shot is there.
Of more significance, has anyone noticed that Dan D'Antoni looks like Mike D'Antoni's evil and seedy twin. You know, the twin that went "bad", not loved by Dad.... huffing paint at 13-14 years old and a string of violent relationships. Missing teeth from 40 years of bar fights and gambling debts.... Mike after getting a phone call at 3 am from his brother at the county jail asking for bail money...... I dunno, maybe it is just me....... just has a real Mario v. Wario feel to it.
How do you feel about harden and cp3 posting curry up? Because I see that happening. We will attack curry relentlessly If we post isoJoe on curry and they send a double, hats already a win for us. No way should you as a coach Want to send help for joe frickin johnson. But you would almost have to. That gives the rockets 4on3 with their worst player out of the play.
Good one. But I've missed material with true Joe Johnson post-up plays. I thought the article would indicate also that the wing post-up plays seem more efficient than the traditional post-up game with the bigs.
The way CP and James post up is the modern version .. the way Joe Johnson posts up is the old school version.
Yes, we will leave Iggy open. Warriors don’t leave Livingston out there at 3-pt line there very often. The Warriors have been doing this longer though. When Livingston is in the game it’s post up time. They don’t waist time running many plays for Durant or Curry....it’s rest time for them. Joe Johnson will be more open at the 3-pt line in the playoffs than he is now. I hope that extra half second allows him to shoot 34% from 3 in the PO’s. I don’t guarantee it though. JJ is shooting like 23% from 3 in the last 15 reg season games. I know the question is directed towards Holic....but I want to give my take real quick. Using Harden and CP3 also works. Make Curry lean against someone. I could guard spot up shooters all day long and it didn’t phase my shot. But when I had to guard post up guys bigger than me. It did hurt my shot over time. I don’t think Harden and CP3 will be as much as a threat in the post as JJbwhobhas been doing it all his career vs big players. He just needs to get use to it vs guys like Rozier (who bailed on him as he was receiving the ball) or light weights like Curry. But if the purpose is to have Curry exert energy....they CP3 and Harden can do that. Ryan Anderson needs to be used in the post as well in forced matchups. Ryan has the Dirk kick from the post up move (and scores high in 5hisbplayvtype). Understand that the Warriors do this every playoffs and will feature posting up Livingston/Durant/West against CP3. CP3 will be exhausted and need as much rest as possible on the sidelines and while on the court. I would not recommend putting CP3 in the grind. But the Rockets do run CP3 in the post with cutter action. Works as well. Joe Johnson (6’8” 240 pounds) / Harden (6’5” 235 pounds?) / Ryan Anderson (6’10” 240 pounds and around 98 NBA percentile in post ups) will be like Curry leaning against a refrigerator.....only the refrigerator will be pushing back. Takes a little out of the 185 pound player. Even if Curry is fronting the refrigerator.
I can see Paul posting up Curry and the Warriors living with that. I can't seer the dubs allowing harden to back him down in the post. They're going to switch s defender on Harden when he gets the ball and they're going to keep switching and helping Curry. The recipe to beating the Rockets in the playoffs in the Harden era gsm been to attack him with multiple defenders when he catches the ball. I don't expect that to change. Teams know how badly we want to go to Harden. They will FORCE a more even possession distribution between Harden and Paul or we won't win a championship. Playoff opponents want Harden to force the play himself going against multiple defenders.
