Brace yourself: Here comes the 'Lebron for MVP' chatter

Really starting to think Lebron might swipe it from Harden. Media seems desperate to hype him down the stretch of the season, same as Westbrook last season.

Would be poetic

 

Losing to the worst team in the league while bricking every shot surely doesn't help

 

And yet it’s not surprising. Harden checks out of games way too easily. Whether it’s when his team has built a big lead, or his team just clinched a 1 seed, or if the MVP no longer seems up for grabs, he will just stop playing like he cares.

 

It is so frustrating. I am hoping and praying he runs through the finish line this year.

 

Him playing like ass to close the season is going to cost him. It's stupid to even talk about but the media is desperately seeking a way to shift the conversation.

 

I will say this hundreds of times even though most people here don't want to hear it : huge problem with Harden is flaming out towards the end of the season - including the playoffs. Is it related to stamina? or maybe minor injuries? I don't know why, but he always looks way more slower and less explosive during this time around.

And because of recency bias, Harden's MVP campaign always takes a hit during this period. In fact, it would be much better if Harden started the season off slower and then play better towards the end, which is what AD and Lillard is doing right now. Strong ending beats strong beginning every single time.

 

Won’t find me “caping” for Steph. Not a fan.....well except for when he pissed #45 off on Twitter.

 

He ain't losing it, harden will be the mvp this season.

 

Uhmmm in his last four games he is averaging 25 points 10 assists 9 rebounds and right at 2 steals (which number 2 in the league is Oladipo at 2.05 steals per game) How in this world is that flaming out?

Lebron is playing amazing. But Harden is still doing great and has the Rockets in the midst of their 3rd 11+ game win streak this season.

 

after tonight's game vs suns, harden comes second imo. green should be mvp, amirite?

 

Harden just produced two more highlights (cross over / clutch 3) and a dramatic win. His campaign keeps going strong

Rockets now at 11 in a row. Nothing much the haters can say

 

Kelly Scaletta preaching that gospel...hallelujah

James Harden is the presumptive leader and assumed winner for the Most Valuable Player, however a voice is rising that LeBron James might deserve it more because while Harden has had the “better” season, James has been “more valuable” to the Cavaliers.

This has to do with a somewhat upside-down version of “help” which suggests that a player whose team is worse must be doing more. It depends on the “where would they be without him” type of argument” that forces us to look at an imaginary world rather than the actual one.

The Cavaliers have struggled this year, falling short of expectations. They had to trade their second-best player, Kyrie Irving, for a small cadre of players which didn’t work out for the most part and were, in turn, traded for another cadre of players which have done marginally better.

Through the turmoil, the Cavs have managed to (for now) retain a top-three seed, and LeBron James has unquestionably been their best and most valuable player. But to suggest that makes him the league’s MVP is disingenuous and short-sighted.

Why should the failed Cavaliers’ chemistry work against James Harden?

The Rockets had quite a bit of turnover this year, too. In fact, the Cavaliers roster continuity (53 percent) isn’t all that much less than the Rockets (60 percent) according to Basketball-Reference.com.

While LeBron’s issues with his point guard were pushing Irving away, Chris Paul worked to get himself traded to play with Harden.

While the Cavaliers’ big story this season has been how the locker room disintegrated, the Rockets melded together. In large part, according to assistant coach Irv Roland, that was because of Harden doing things to get the team together during the offseason, having barbecues at his house and the like, fostering a team atmosphere, even in the summer.

Certainly, the Cavaliers are better with LeBron, but that doesn’t mean the Rockets aren’t better because of Harden or that Harden doesn’t have more value than James. They both have one All-Star caliber player, though only Kevin Love was actually in the game.

Chris Paul played 54 games; Kevin Love has played 55. And while you might argue that Paul has had a better season overall, Harden still carried the team in his absence.

There are objective measures, albeit imperfect to separate how much a player contributes compared with how much his teammates do.

Real Plus-Minus, for example, attempts to account for who players are on the court with and against. Harden’s 14.8 RPP wins is the most in the NBA. LeBron’s 13.12 is fourth — and that comes on nine more games played.

And of course “stats don’t mean everything,” but I refer you to the aforementioned evidence that Harden has done more “beyond the stats” to help his team as well.

The argument for LeBron really just comes to the logic that he was the best player on a team that struggled and underachieved with a post-hoc cherry that that somehow means he’s more valuable.

Sure, his numbers are fantastic, but Harden’s are better. Harden leads the league in scoring, made threes, win shares, RPM wins and player efficiency rating. He’s manufacturing more points per game, more efficiently than LeBron is through his passing and scoring.

LeBron is tremendously valuable, but this year Harden has been more valuable on and off the court. Harden’s team is better, and in very large because of Harden.

Whether you’re looking at numbers or narrative, Harden just wins the argument.

None of this dismisses LeBron’s great season, but let’s not dismiss Harden’s with a bogus, “he has more help” argument either.

We might have that discussion if the teams are relatively close in the standings, but the Rockets are 15 games better. The difference in margin of victory between Houston and Cleveland nearly matches that between Cleveland and the Sacramento Kings.

The Rockets are not just better than the Cavaliers, they’re an entire echelon better.

Paul may or may not get an All-Defensive and All-NBA team nod, based on how voters view his absence, but no other teammate Harden has will make either team. No teammate made the All-Star Game.

So, what constitutes the difference then? Could it be the chemistry that Harden cultivated?

Let’s not get too lazy in how we define these things. Some might say it doesn’t make sense to give Harden credit just because his team won more games. It makes even less sense to give LeBron credit just because his roster struggled more.

If the two teams had close to the same record and LeBron had pulled the team together, I’d see an argument there. But rather, he was at least part of the reason the team was torn apart while Harden was a significant factor in his team bonding.

 

if Harden doesn't get it this season, i'll have to personally punish rachel nichols..

 

Kelly Scaletta earns clicks with this one. Make sure you give him one.

https://94feetreport.com/mvp-ladder-the-changing-notion-of-help-c2add9e4c70

 

That's stupid. This has been wrapped up for a while. Stop panicking.

 

I haven't heard anything about James Harden for a month since Lebron has been on this "I'm 33! Can you believe it!" tour. Voters are just dumb enough to forget Harden exists. They have stopped talking about Harden all together. Rockets are doing so well they have cut them out of the standings when they are talking about the playoff race.

I can't believe it, but the Houston Rockets and James Harden have done so well they aren't worth mentioning. Played too well they are boring to talk about! Rockets have locked up home court throughout the playoffs; there is nothing to play for; nothing for Harden to do to solidify the MVP. There are only a couple weeks left, recency bias is a real thing.

Seriously every minor accomplishment is the best thing ever when it comes to Lebron. Every accidental dribble through the legs is the best highlight ever.

 

Harden isn't worried about whether or not he wins the MVP so I won't be either. He's the best player on the best team and he's the best player in the league with the best stats. If people can't show that they know this with their vote, **** em'. That means the award is fake. The players already put together an award ceremony because they all knew the voters are fake. This year would be no different.

 

Players voted Westbrook MVP last year. I agree with everything else.

 

I was referring to the Curry year, but thanks for that. I didn't know they continued to do those votes. Do they still do the ceremony?

 

hey did not do the ceremony last year.