I mean you’re basically saying in one case he wanted to quit and did so that’s quiting. In the other case he didn’t want to hit but nonetheless did, and that’s being burned out. Again... I don’t particularly care. Frankly I know I, and I suspect no one else, actually think he went out there and purposefully quit, pouted, was making a statement, whatever. I know when I say he quit and I suspect most others say the same thing, were saying he just wasn’t there mentally for the game... which is what you’d call burned out. Again, matters little to me. All I care about is that he never does it again.
I understand that you are saying it doesn't matter to you, but for me, intent matters a lot. Intent is one of the key things that define our character and actions.
I hear you. Just again bear in mind very rarely do you ever find a scenario where a player truly quits. The two in the NBA that come to mod immediately are Rondo against us ... when really who cares about him a ton that’s point, horrible player / coach relationship, and perhaps more relevant Kobe against the Suns that one game in the playoffs. But in Kobe’s case he had multiple championships and was making a clear and pointed message for Lakers management. So even then It’s not like the pure intent was to just give up for no reason. Also I’m kind of less encouraged If it was mental burnout. I’d rather he had just quit, there was a reason for it that was clear, and that reason was remedied. Instead I’m still just hoping he’ll have a playoff run where he doesn’t suck a lot in one or two games...
Thing is, you can only run on E for so long before things just stop. Sometimes, no matter how much we want otherwise, we just can't take another step. It sucks, but it happens, and quite often in our world.
Yeah, James has had lapses and disappearances in some games. It's just not normal when he isn't in the spotlight. I also think intent is important. Digs a layer deeper into the actions you see. That TMac game....followed by a midseason surgery that torpedoed a trade.
is physical and mental exhaustion after 90+ game MVP level season enough reason? and does replacing pbev, lou, dekker, harrel with cp3, tucker, lmm, jj/gg directly address that? kobe and lebron had those as well right? but they weren't traded because of those. laker/cavs org and fans still trusted them because they understand they didn't build a championship team not even a cf team around them just like morey, les, tilman, cp3, tucker, lmm, jj, gg, ariza etc all understand that does his okc finals run count?
Lebrons been to 7 straight Finals. The warriors are on their 4th year in a row of long playoff runs. And plenty plenty of other examples. If 11 games into the playoffs was the breaking point for Harden physically or mentally than that’s a big f’ing problem. TMac as someone noted had a quit game. And now most Rockets fans remember him poorly. Pippen had similar type performance for the Rockets then one year, everybody hates him. Not sure what game of Lebron you’re referring to. Love had one as I discussed previously. By all means if Harden wants to win multiple rings and/or MVPs then “quit” as a way of communicating with management that’d be a different matter. He definitely was/is not at that point yet. The OKC run is good to bring up since he was awesome most of that run until he sucked in the Finals.
LBJ has arguably been a top 2 player since he came into the league. Warriors have 3-4 All-Stars on their team depending on which season we are talking about. Technically speaking, Harden still doesn't have an All-Star teammate, but noticed how much better he is this year with good teammates? When your 2nd best player is Bev or still recovering Ego, you are lacking sufficient support.
Yes. That’s part of the point. Harden hasn’t been in that category yet. As for him.... we’ll hes been much the same player the last two years - obviously statistically better last year. He was also statistically dominant the years before that. The teams been better this year of course. The criticism wasn’t that Harden failed to get out of the second round. Spurs were the better regular season team and had HCA. The criticism is the disappearing act in Game 5 at the end and Game 6. Which has nothing to do with his teams talent level. After all before Game 5 started against the Spurs most on this board felt pretty good about the Rockets making it to the WCF.
Umm of course it does. The better your team, the less you need to carry to win. Why do you think LBJ went to the Heat?
That has almost 0 to do with Harden game 6. I mean I’d really say 0 but you’d quibble so I’ll give you like 1%. We’re not talking about a bad games or a tired game. We’re talking about 0 shots in a first half and being Co completely horrible with no effort or care. The fact that you attribute this to bad teammates and being tired after comparatively not carrying any higher a load for any more games than countless players before him is insane. But whatever. You keep making excuses.
Wow... are you really unable to put the two together? I really overestimated you. How do you think burn out happens? It is fatigue (both mental and physical) that accumulates an extended period of time until you get to that point where **** just goes sideways for you. Try to put aside your "blame Harden" mentality and think for a bit here. Last year's team significantly overachieved. A lot of fans didn't even think we would make the playoffs, much less have the success that we did. How did that happen? It happened because Harden carried us through the entire season and the vast majority of the playoffs by literally doing almost everything on offense for us. Eventually, it hit a breaking point in Game 5 OT and then Game 6. Burn out doesn't just disappear between one game to the next. It's not even remotely close to getting sore or being simply tired. It doesn't just go away with a good night's sleep. Some people retire due to getting burnt out. Stop looking at everything in a vacuum or as individual games. Each NBA season is a sequence of events that build up upon one another to end in a collective result. The result of last season was Harden gave out from being the singular engine that drove the entire offense. Could we blame that on his refusal to rest? Absolutely. He should have taken a few games off like every other superstar on a contender, but he let his pride get in the way. This year, his supporting cast is much stronger. We won't have to count on him defending bigs if Nene goes down. We don't need him to be the only one running the offense with CP3. Again, all of that will build upon each other. It's fine if you don't believe me, but here are some direct quotes from Rockets head coach MDA who knows way more about his situation last year than either you or me. The Rockets have been working on ways to keep Harden from hitting that post-season wall long before they told him to stay home on Tuesday. "It's probably the foremost thing on our mind," Rockets coach Mike D'Antoni said. "Having Chris now, it's easier. Last year, we had to try to get a good seed. With Chris, it's not as much about minutes as (not) expecting James to make every play. That's helped. And we've been able, especially early, to win a lot of games and give him rest the last five, six minutes. "I think the stress level is the biggest thing because it's not on his shoulders to make every play offensively. I think it's a combination of two or three factors. Us winning by big margins, Chris coming and taking stress level off him, having more guys that can do the playmaking have all helped." Harden has played fewer minutes than he ever has as a starter, but that's still just about a minute per game fewer than last season (two fewer per game since the All-Star break.) D'Antoni's point about the stress that comes with the burden he carried last season is fair and clear, but the effort to have Harden and the Rockets' other regulars ready for the postseason is not about box score stats or the subjective judgement about how they appear on game nights. See, the difference between you and me is that I choose to think instead or blaming. I choose to think instead of emotionally reacting. A guy of Harden's caliber despite his limited physical abilities doesn't just happen from giving up, from being mentally weak. It happens from a guy who lives for BB and works hard at perfecting his craft. CP3 himself have commented on that multiple times. That type of person doesn't just quit. So if he didn't quit, what happened? When happened during last season? What happened during the playoffs? Don't point fingers. Don't play the blame game. What you deride as excuses is actually called using that organ we call a brain and processing events in a logical manner to reach a logical conclusion.
Dude, what you are saying is the easiest **** in the world to comprehend. That you can't understand what I'm saying is not that shocking, since it requires a bit of thought. Whether 90 games, or 4 years of accumulation, if Harden is burning out physically or mentally because of the relatively small load he's carried relative to basically every other top 100 player in NBA history, to the point where it forces him to quit (that's what it was, your speaking to cause, not action... he quit in the same way Kobe did, both players had reasons), then its pretty problematic. Try not to get upset here like you're related to him or something. It's not personal, lol. It's not even hating on him as a person. It's blaming him as an athlete, which is appropriate. I'm not going to pretend like Yao was a better player than he was because it wasn't his fault he got injured. His injuries are part of his evaluation as a player. Again, this isn't complicated. Other great and near great players have taken on similar loads. Fine. What you are saying happened. The conclusion is the same. He quit. The reason for why he quit is just elucidated. I proposed a reason as to why he quit in my first post in this thread today. We all know.... there's a reason why he quit... none of us know for sure why, but theres a reason. As I already mentioned, that he got burnt out after carrying a superstar load is more troublesome to me than other options. That is a pattern that has happened year after year in the playoffs is something that should be troubling to all Rockets fans. We hope this is the year it doesn't that's for sure. The result of last season was that Harden quit. The reasoning, according to you, was physical and mental exhaustion. We'll see what happens this year.
Really?? In the middle of the best regular season the Rockets have ever had, with a player who is probably going to win the first MVP on the Rockets in 24 years, and the most likely first time ever that we will get the #1 seed.... And we are still talking about this?
You honestly think Harden carried a typical superstar load? You honestly think it is a relatively small load? Wow, you are dumb!
For the trade harden club, it ain’t going to hapen. Chances are Morey will get fired before gets jharden gets traded
He carried as much a load as most other super Stars. Bear in mind the dude played little defense. As he had most of his career. He didn’t even carry the biggest load in the NBA last year. That was Russ. Even if it was a poorly designed system And it didn’t work Russ was carryin a bigger load. He wasn’t great in the playoffs (though wasn’t bad. He did average a triple double lol)... but he didn’t quit.
no. he carried a heavier load last year than curry because curry had kd, klay, green, ai he carried a heavier load last year than kd because kd had curry, klay, green, ai he carried a heavier load last year than lebron because lebron had kyrie & love he carried a heavier load last year than kawhi because kawhi had lma & pau & spurs can win last year without kawhi he carried a heavier load last year than cp3 because cp3 had blake & dj if Harden's load wasn't heavier than any other superstar last year who could have carried the rockets farther? more than 55 wins / 2nd seed and into the wcfs???
