Maybe some Rockets fans see the message board as their 'home base' where they feel like they can criticize the team and when they go to general NBA forums like r/NBA, they defend Harden vigorously? I know I do. I criticize here more than o do in general NBA forums where other fans from other teams are involved. I always vigorously defend Harden in non-Rocket message boards.
the excuses are correct - to an extent... For example - turnovers. Yes, the more 1 player controls the ball, his # of turnovers will go up... for someone like harden to have more to than the norm is perfectly logical... but setting all time records for turnovers? His usage doesnt give him a free pass.... Last year, i'd say a good % of Harden's turnovers were perfectly acceptable - its part of the game... but how many of those turnovers were harden just being lazy with the pass or trying to rifle it to the rim between multiple defenders? Point being, as I said, Harden is a great player... but there's always room for improvement... If MJ decided that every 100th play he was just going to hurl the ball out of bounds - cause he thought it was funny... doesn't mean he's not great - but that would be a concern and somebody should address it... not just say "oh well, MJ is great so it's cool..." lol Thankfully Hardens turnovers are down this year from last... with or without CP3 on the floor... showing he could reel in the turnovers - to an extent... contrary to all the apologists who insisted that his record setting turnovers were perfectly acceptable...
Yea I don't think this is what's happening. I have alot of friends that were born elsewhere but raised in Houston and loosely consider themselves Rockets fans. They are slightly above the level of a casual fan in that they know about the sport but don't listen to podcasts or go on blogs/forums about basketball. Their main source of basketball intake is through national games and national pre/post game coverage. And they all have the same irrational level of Harden hate the these NHF's have. I ask them what they don't like about Harden and it's like I'm hearing a tape recording of Barkley or Kellerman or Beadle start playing: "He's not a leader" "His game is ugly" "Bad body language!" "I want to see it in the playoffs!" None of these things have anything to do with his production or abilities or X's and O's, yet these are the arguments that are screamed the loudest because the national media types have gassed them up and they believe what they heard on the dummy box. This is where these sentiments are coming from, and the people that spew them believe them 100%, they're not field testing a thought experiment.
and FOR GODS SAKE - can the harden apologists stop declaring anyone who has a criticism of James Harden to be a LOF! Idk if its ignorance, paranoia or what... Lin is ancient history (regarding the Rox)! The only time he gets mentioned is some overly enthusiastic Harden Only Fan declaring someone to be a LOF - bc they simply cant comprehend someone having a criticism of the almighty James Harden - get over it already! I've been accused of being a LOF numerous times... and I'll tell you now, i dont give 2 $hits about Jeremy Lin - never have... he's a mediocre player who had a nice run with the Knicks and he played for us awhile... who cares? I'm a middle age white guy living in Las Vegas who has been a Rox fan since my childhood in Houston... Jeremy Lin has no relevance whatsoever...
yeah just like Jordan who needed Pippen, Phil, Rodman, etc Harden needs a Cp3, MDA, solid defenders & rebounders etc as well no amount of improvent for harden will take last years team past 55 games and 6th game 2nd round of the playoffs Harden's not holding down the rockets.. its the other way around..
really dude? game 6? You dont think Harden's typical play in game 6 against a Spurs team wo Kawhi and Parker could've pulled out a victory? really? I guess i just have a greater respect for harden's abilities than you do... cause if we had played that game as we played most of the season... it should have been a cakewalk for us... not saying other guys didn't suck as well that game... and until guys are shooting 100% with shut down defense - or we are collecting rings - EVERYBODY has room for improvement...
I don't think anybody is saying that Harden is a perfect player or that he never makes mistakes. He's not. He has his flaws. But to blame him for any of the Rockets struggles is absolutely absurd. He almost single-handedly transformed our franchise from a team stuck in perpetual mediocrity. Those Rockets teams that would repeatedly have players that played hard and had lots of effort, but would end up as the 8th or 9th seed in the West and the 14th pick in the draft year after year. He has his flaws, no doubt. He ballwatches too much on defense still. He plays for the foul and for the whistle. He can get visibly frustrated and let it effect his game. He sometimes has the appearance of being lazy on the court. I'm not debating these things. He could definitely improve in some areas. But so could, literally, every player in the league. No player is perfect. And James is one of the legit best players alive. He has carried our team at an MVP level for multiple years in a row. When his game and his shot are on, he is almost unstoppable. Criticism for him isn't unique. Lots of superstar players have been criticized as 'not able to ever carry a team to a championship'....until they carried a team to a championship. Dirk was too soft and didn't play defense. Lebron wasn't clutch, was scared of the big game moments, and would pass up too many opportunities at the end of games. Curry was too injury prone and unreliable and would always deal with ankle injuries. Durant was a cupcake that was too soft and had to go join another team. There was even criticism against Olajuwon back in the day and fans in Houston thinking he should be traded before he won in 94 and 95. Harden needs the right supporting cast around him, no doubt. He is not able to carry the Rockets to a championship on his own.. but then again, no player- not even Jordan or Lebron or Hakeem- was able to do that either. He is a fantastic player and we are lucky that he is on our team.
You act as if there aren't any distinct deficits to Harden's game that the vast majority of superstar guards don't have. How many superstar guards have you seen that are so incompetent at shaking their man off the ball? The problem with Harden is that their are ways for NBA defenses to completely shut out Harden for entire quarters. He refuses to move his feet. I don't know if it's asthma or some mental issue but it's a concern. Luckily we do have a Chris Paul who isn't faced by presses . Harden has the highest highs but also the lowest lows for a superstar backcourt player.
Bev and suprisingly Anderson had good games game 5, CC was solid.. overall the team played well - and it got given away down the stretch... Bev and Ariza stats werent bad game 6... but obviously game 6 was a total meltdown - embarrassing... whether one wants to attribute it too MDA's stupid short rotations - or if rumors of a blowup between Ariza and Harden after game 6 are to be believed... or if you want to prescribe to the 'concussion theory'.... idk.. Point being, through the end of regulation in game 5 - we were tied - 2-2-1 Game 6 - at home... no Kawhi - no Parker.... had harden put up 35-40 and facilitated as he had done most of the year - it shoulda been a victory... but the whole team was obviously demoralized before halftime and dead in the water at that point... plenty of blame to go around... first and foremost - no leadership... Harden, MDA, Bev, whoever... .
I find this post offensive. Offensive. NEVER start this sort of thread without mentioning swyyguy. It's like the original James Coney Island. I don't know if he's the original "I love the team but I despise Harden" poster, but he's the first to throw Molotov cocktails at The Beard when the chance presents itself. I didn't read this entire thread but he must have douched it somewhere.
Curry has the exact same issue as Harden of getting held by defenders off ball the way Smart did to Harden and not getting a foul. The BballBreakdown guys talked about it on their podcast a few days ago. Go check for yourself title of the episode was "Did the Rockets Get Screwed?" Should be easy enough to locate. The thing that keeps happening here is people keep generalizing Harden's issues into a vacuum without all the data. Do you watch all the other teams 82 games/year to see if these things are happening? My guess is probably not, so you're just speculating up a straw man with a data set that you haven't even explored yourself. Harden is highest profile so he gets covered and more people know about his deficiencies.
The long story short of it all is . . . . .. . Harden has done more for this organization than anyone since Hakeem I love Yao .. . I love Steve Francis . . . was never a TMAC fan Replace Harden with ANY OF THEM and we don't get out the 1st round Call me a Harden Only Fan Call me an apologist but One thing I will embrace you calling me is APPRECIATIVE!!!! Hard for me to take someone seriously when they harping for DMo, Lin, TMac, or looking at the grass in someone else's yard (Rickie Rubio?) when they cannot appreciate what we have now I remember the 'hating' on Yao when we first got him I remember the 'hating' on Stevie Franchise but NEVER ANYTHING ON THIS LEVEL . . . . . . by so called ROCKET FANS Laugh at @tinman all you like . . about the whole 99er thing but These are folx who seen some sh*t!!! I was watching when Sampson hit THE SHOT . . When the Rockets got hosed in Boston . . both times [81 and 86] I remember the b**** and moaning against Hakeem . . OH HE FAKING AN INJURY .. . WE SHOULD TRADE HIM FOR RONY F*CKING SY-CO-LEE (No I don't feel like googling him to spell his name right) So . . . I say that to say this Harden has his faults . . . and discussing them is fine but this out right nitpicking out right hatred is just irratating Rocket River
well said... i will say for my part... I do appreciate what we have now - a real opportunity to win it all... which has been far to rare the last couple decades... which is why i get so frustrated when we seem to piss it away.... whether its MDA and his stupid short rotations, whether its playing hero ball down the stretch of game 5 or whether its letting attitudes and egos get in the way of our ultimate team goal... True opportunities are rare... I've been a fan for 35+ years - like yourself... and I dont think younger fans realize how rare... so when people wanna just do the 'hero worship' thing and ballyhoo stats - instead of continuing to push for improvement - with the goal of a championship - its beyond frustrating... Like MJ said - it dont mean a thing without the ring...
I watch every single game of the Rockets. Yes. Harden when the ball isn't in his hands, moves his feet the least of any offensive guard I've ever seen. That isn't an exaggeration. I think it's a problem but the problem can be masked with CP3 by his side.
