ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Celtics 12/28/2017

Opponents like to use fake drop on the floor to make offensive foul for harden

 

This clowns existence on this board is to bash harden it seems and to troll

 

It frustrates me also but let's not leave all the blame away from Harden. If he learned or conditioned him self to move or attempt to juke or run around screens when his teammate is trying to pass the ball to him instead of pushing off with both arms which is a foul regardless of the flop, we wouldn't run in to this issue in the first place.

If every rational GARM poster is nothing this pattern with Harden and his unwillingness to move off the ball, I garauntee you that Chris Paul notices it too and unlike former teammates, CP3 is willing to lay into Harden for it which could potentially allow other players like Ariza or Nene to snap at him also which would be good for the team.

Or they can accept that this is a permanent weakness in Harden's game and we can just resort to one of the best pgs of all time handling the ball in pressure situations where the defense is pressing on your primary ball handlers .

 

I would be more pissed about this if every PG in the league didn't do the exact same thing
I see Kyrie do it. . I see Curry do it .. . I see many players do he same move and never get called for it.

Rocket River

 

I watch those other guys move. When players like Kyrie and Curry do the push off, they don't extend their arms AND most importantly juke the opposite direction as they push off while Harden tries to steam roll through. The latter is much more obvious to the ref.

It's a much more quick less obvious motion with Kyrie and Steph

 

negged

 

Did they make the right calls?

Shannon: I believe they did. If they're fouls in the first, they're fouls in the 4th. I hate they called them because now it takes the emphasis off Houston. They blew this game. Now Harden is making it seem like the refs cost them the game. They got up 26 with two refs. Wasn't a problem then. I didn't know it until this morning. I wish they had a third ref. He probably would have whispered in Harden's ear you're up 26, jacking up quick threes isn't helping you guys. Harden pushed. And he thought 'OK, you called it on me, you won't call it again.' He called it again. The refs didn't cost the Rockets. It was their play. This is the concern people have about Mike D'Antoni come playoff time. They had 5 assists in the 2nd half, 1 in the fourth quarter. The Houston Falcons should be ashamed of themselves. Up 26, jacking up threes like you're down 26. At some point, you gotta run the offense but I think their offense is Harden shooting step back threes & Harden going to the FT line. I think that's their first two options. I'm watching Eric Gordon jack up a three with 20 seconds on the shot clock. That's not an offense. We need to slow it down. They didn't do that. Celtics kept fighting. These two calls overshadow what Houston didn't do. They should have won going away. They got reckless & jacking up quick shots.

Skip: The first thing I want to say is this game only needed was one ref: Tony Brothers. I'm gonna give him a sitting ovation right now. He did something I thought no ref would ever do. He knows a thing or two. He had the conviction to say BOOM! Offensive foul on Harden, who gets more calls in this league than a 1-800 number. He does. He was getting them all night. He was 15-15 in this game. He leads the NBA in FTA by 54 FTs. For him to have two quick calls against him in crunch time & Tony Brothers, to his credit, right on top of the play, he did not hesitate. BOOM! He threw his body into it. You fouled him. Harden got called twice. Big picture, these refs watch & follow. In this case, let's go back to close out game 6 in Houston last year, what happened? Harden disappeared. 10 points on 2-11 shooting. Last night, what you saw was one team with high basketball character against another with questionable character. One with huge heart, another with small heart, sometimes no heart.(@swyyyguy ) Clutch guts on one team, disappearing act on the other. Refs know this team is track you down & the other is a fragile front-runner. Tony Brothers says you didn't earn the right to get away with those.

Shannon: This goes back to Mike D'Antoni. Why are you playing so small? Tucker trying to keep Baynes off the glass? Why not Nene? I would have put Nene in. They stayed small for so long & Boston started killing them on the glass. Tucker is tough but he's not keeping Baynes off the glass.

 

Worst loss in a long time. Just can't blow a 26 point lead, especially in a slow paced, grind it out game. Just no excuse for that. They turned up the intensity in the 3rd quarter and we folded. Just totally bogged down offensively.

Also, yes the refs cost us the game at the end. Despite the epic collapse/choke, we were still in position to win until they called that flop. That first foul was not an offensive foul. Smart had Harden wrapped up, and Harden created space to receive the ball. Every player does this. If Smart doesn't flop, that's not called, ever. Very disappointing to see the game taken away from us at the end.

That being said, my enthusiasm about this team potentially winning a championship has gone way down. Championship caliber teams don't play like we have in the last four games. They find a way to grind out wins even when guys are out. They don't make ridiculous mental lapses like we did. Very disappointing, we have so much to improve on.

 

I am pretty sure other championship teams had 4 game losing streaks at some points(s) in their season.

On the other hand, if you are saying that it is how they have looked these last 4 games, then certainly there is some reason for concern. Not so much that i think their season is doomed, but enough to see some changes need to happen. Some of those on the coaching end. If we make them successfully, then the ship is righted and all is well (seemingly?). If not, opponents will continue to get away with exploiting our weaknesses.

While getting healthy is the best remedy, I am bringing into question whether this team CAN stay healthy for more than a few weeks at a time.

 

This team was never better than GSW. Still one big piece away n

 

No lies were told. Shannon and Skip spitting that truth.

 

I FLOATED AN IDEA SOMETIME AGO ABOUT FLOPPING:
The League has their official replay booth in place during games right?
Why can they not review potential flops 'in game'?
In other words, the primary purpose of flopping/acting is to deceive the officials into giving
your team a call that should never have been made in the first place. It destroys the integrity (and sometimes outcome) of the game.
HERE'S MY PROPOSED ACTION TO ELIMINATE FLOPPING:
1) With a questionable act (flop), referee makes call as they see it, just as they are doing now. Game continues as usual.
2) The replay angles of the potential flop go to NJ Replay center immediately for review.
3) If it is determined that the action was indeed simply deception then the following action is taken

A) If defender deceived and offensive player was awarded foul and possession changed, then
2 points are automatically awarded to the offensive player/team, 'phony' foul is removed and defender receives a foul.
B) If offensive player deceived and received FT's, the points are removed (much like reviewing foot on 3pt line, adjustments
are made 'in game'). Offensive player also receives a foul and defensive player has foul expunged.

This would not disrupt the flow of the game and would surely eliminate flopping. ESPECIALLY IN TIGHT GAMES.
If a player knows that acting will award 2 points to the other team and affect the outcome of the game, they
are FAR less likely to try it. As it is now, they are only REWARDED. There is no downside except for a non-call.
So why not flop?
THIS way, the player could be penalized with an additional foul and automatically award 2 pts to the opponent.
Penalty imposed. Game score corrected and problem solved.

 

Championship teams do not choke like the rockets did last night. Harden is a major choker but everyone here has known that for a while.

I have never seen a player turn to such garbage in crunch time as harden. He was trying to lose last night.

 

Shannon is arguing to go slow and play big.

Even though the opposite is winning for the rockets.

The problem is execution by the players and depth.

 

He was garbage in Portland scoring 18 points in the last 5 minutes or the pelicans game scoring the last 12 to win it....

 

So what? Wtf have we ever won with him? It seriously looked like he was throwing the game. I am tired of his ****. Was last year after he quit in the playoffs.

 

Shut up idiot. Stop changing the subject

 

Oh sure, but it looked like we would at least be in a position to possibly win if one of their top players were out or something. I've accepted the fact that nobody is beating GS as long as those 4 guys are together. But I was hopeful that we were "next in line" if something went wrong there. We may still be, but we have a lot to improve on.

It's not just the four game losing streak, it's how we lost. Losing to two scrub teams at home and blowing a 26 point lead is not indicative of a championship caliber team.

And I think we're on the same page. Injuries to some extent are usually gonna happen (unless your'e GS in 2015). It's how you respond to those injuries and stick to your principles no matter who's in there. We also blew a 15 point lead in the 3rd against the Clippers. Just not a good look, and we need to get out of this rut fast. SA is not far behind and they just keep winning games without Kawhi.

 

Lol! Nobody is changing the subject. Not sure you understand what that is.

 

Remember when we were down 13 to the Warriors and came back in the 4th and won?
Wins&Losses

All I care about is entering the playoffs healthy.