That’s my biggest issue. This is arguably the biggest movie franchise of all time, and this is the best they could come up with? They aren’t under the rule of Lucas anymore. No reason to settle for anything script wise yet it seems like that’s what they did. TFA, love it or hate it, set you up pretty well for a sequel and then you just cast away any of that mystery. I like Rey’s character and I walked out of the movie having enjoyed the second half, but Star Wars goggles help a lot. I liked revenge of the sith when I left, but it’s unwatchable now. It’ll be interesting to see what future viewings hold for this one.
This makes no sense whatsoever. I actually want them to like it. I would say nothing negative and let them decide for themselves. If they like it, i would be nothing but positive about it. Point was, i don’t think they will and that kind of sucks if it happens. Yes ultimately it’s just a movie, I just don't want them to lose interest overall. They love the franchise. Look, first world problems and all. In the grand scheme of things it’s not a big deal. That said, the movie sucked and I'm disappointed. They blew it.
The 57% audience score is completely ridiculous. I'm sorry, but those people that are complaining about how different this movie is from Star Wars were the same people that hated TFA because it was exactly like the original movie. The characters don't go the way you think they will... they have literally been telling you that was going to happen from the beginning. Rian Johnson bucked the system a little bit with this one. He changed the way we think of Jedi, and I thought it was the perfect time to do it. Also, I loved how he made the characters their own people. He showed they aren't perfect. He knocked them down a peg, and then he built them back up. It's not a perfect film by any stretch of the imagination, but it was a great new direction for the series.
Spoiler It may have had such a crushing impact if they just let Leia be dead as she was sucked out of the ship, but then you wouldn't have that emotional scene with her and Luke later in the movie. Guardians of the Galaxy did a very similar thing and it was infinitely better. I think they should have followed a "less is more" principle. Rather than show Leia twitching and still alive and using the force to get back to the ship, have her speak to someone on the ship like Luke to her in Empire. Reach out to Poe that she's alive, which could open up a whole new box that Poe is force sensitive, which has been a theory, or just reinforce the notion that the force resides in everyone. But anything would have been better than that; there's no defending it But as I think about the movie more, and read a lot of commentary and reviews, the more understanding and appreciative I am of what Rian Johnson was trying to do, and I'm looking forward to watching it again to see if I enjoy it more. Spoiler TFA sets up easily for a sequel where you see Rey shockingly discovers she's the daughter of Luke or Han/Leia, where Snoke is Plagueis, where the Resistance and Rey suffer a setback at the hands of the First Order and Ren gets the better of Rey after she defeated him in their first fight. Sure that would make for a satisfying movie, but sounds very familiar to Empire, and that's the LAST thing I wanted to happen. I was ok with Force Awakens borrowing plot elements from A New Hope; I think it was exactly the film fans needed to spark their love for the franchise again, as well as to bring in newcomers. But I was worried that they'd just continue to follow the same journey from the Original Trilogy when they needed to move the franchise in a new direction. Rian Johnson did just that. Is it jarring, unexpected, and somewhat of a letdown? Yes. But, I think and hope, it will age better than the Prequels have, and his plot choices are actually quite brilliant. Spoiler Almost everyone expected Rey's parents to be someone important, but that would only serve as wish fulfillment for her and fans. Think back to Empire and Luke in the cave. His fear was that he would turn to the dark side and become Vader, and then he finds out he's Vader's son. Suddenly he's become a much more complex character. Here Rey's fear I believe is that she really is a nobody, unwanted by her parents, unsure of where her place is. And Kylo and her dream in the cave confirm just that. The big reveal is that her parents are inconsequential, and that she needs to follow her own path, rather than let it be defined by her lineage. Her arc now becomes more fascinating because it's something we haven't seen in Star Wars. WIth Snoke, again, it would have been too easy to have him strike back at the resistance, only to fall in the third film, like Palpatine. Kylo's move on him was completely unexpected and I enjoyed it, even if it was a bit of a letdown. But I sense, and hope, there's more at play here. This is Ren and Rey's story, but I hope we see something bigger too. Both their powers are raw, and for Rey, untrained. Plus Kylo's emotions are very much unstable; you can sense Hux is looking for an opportunity to turn against him. Not only that, but I still sense some conflict in Ren. Why would he be filled with so much rage at the sight of Luke. If he truly had turned dark and was at peace with himself, he wouldn't be that intent on pummeling Luke (angry with him for what he perceives as a betrayal). He wouldn't have hesitated in destroying Leia's ship (haunted by the love of his parents). He wouldn't have turned on Snoke and helped Rey. I would love to see the third film explore the balance in the force, and the true balance being not a light vs dark but shades of grey. They hinted at it in this film, and even Rogue One, and have discussed it much more in Rebels. I also think it makes a lot of sense to time jump a few years, and to see a rebuilt resistance and Rey and Ren more powerful with more force users at their side (Knight of Ren and more Jedi or a new order entirely?) They are some definite things in the film that are hard or impossible to defend. Things I've mentioned above, some side story that's a bit unnecessary or too long, and a few poor performances (overacting a bit Hux?) But then every film, yes even the originals, have those moments (except for maybe Empire). Those hiccups aside, maybe embracing the new direction would make it more enjoyable, and I hope JJ finds a way to blend both films and styles together in creating the third film for the trilogy. That I think would be the best path forward.
Took the words out of my mouth, Mikol. I was going to write a few paragraphs "ranting" about what bugs the heck out of me about this film, but Max largely saved me the trouble. He should have a film review column somewhere. I'd be a regular reader. Spoiler The Leia scene where she's floating around in space without a suit? Had I been alone, I would have walked out at that point. She should have died then. It would have made sense. They could even have had her float back to the ship, if the director absolutely had to have the stupid scene, and then when she's back inside and they're scratching their heads over how to revive someone who's body should have already boiled and exploded (or something horrific), if she wasn't simply frozen solid, her clothes suddenly empty and she's vanished to wherever "Jedi heaven" is. They could even have had her smile and wave as she's fading away. Anything except what the insane scriptwriters and mad director ended up with. What were they thinking? And the same director is signed up for more flicks? Someone tell me this isn't true! This is all I can handle writing at the moment. I still intend to see it again.
I still find the complaints about this movie funny. It's like people have never watched a Star Wars movie before. 4 of the 9 are between bad and completely garbage....and this movie was REALLY good by comparison to them in almost every way. Do flaws exist? Certainly, but c'mon, compare it to the rest of the movies in the series and you'd find the complaints ridiculous. Perhaps a lot of it is either Star Wars fatigue or contrarianism, I dunno.
The movie spent so much time on characters no one cares about...everything good and interesting about The Force Awakens is ruined in this movie! Thumbs down..prequels are better!!
****SPOILERS**** Horrifically bad...I came out of the theater bewildered and ticked. - Luke Skywalker's character died from poor writing, not "ascension". Mark did fine, but he was robbed of portraying Luke in any way that felt like Luke. - Rey is now a completely ridiculous character. No history, nothing that connects her into the story or that should give her motivation, and super powers that basically required zero training or direction for her to acquire. As yoda said "she knows all of (the stuff in the ancient text)"...uh how? Osmosis? Also, some friendship/love connection she's got going with Fin when they don't see each other until the end of the movie. - I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Rebel Starships run out of gas, but Star destroyers don't...I guess?? Do the destroyers get better MPG? - Kylo with his shirt off...didn't realize we needed b-list comedy stunts to provide space. This is actually symblomatic of the entire comedic relief problem throughout the movie. In the originals, the comedy came as a natural extension of the characters themselves. They said something that fit with the event at hand and what we knew of the character. In TLJ, we get guy with shirt off, cliche shoulder swipe, winks, etc blah...very little of it fit with what we knew of the characters. - Snoke...lol. All powerful...uh whatever he is...destroyed in an instant because he can't sense the force being used right next to him by a boy he knows has self doubts...seems legit. - When Ray goes into the "dark place" on the island and sees herself in those infinite mirrors...what's the point? - Who doesn't love a poorly constructed love triangle where none of the relationships in any direction were developed...like at all? - Hats off to the SJWs for using violence as a way to address things you are offended by. - Why should I care about the vice admiral? - why are all the women basically the same? Why are all the men basically the same? It's not that this movie is filled with plot holes...the movie itself is a plot hole. I wish we could hit the reset button, but Disney seems bent on agendas and marketing.
Much worse than Rogue 1 and TFA. The lack of answers involving Snoke and Rey killed it for me, especially Snoke. Who is he? Where did he come from? How come we weren't given any background? I'd have been ok with some old guy giving me an exposition for 5 minutes, but to get absolutely nothing? Terrible. He was supposed to be a potential rival to Luke in regards to Force strength from what I gathered with TFA and to have his character treated like this was laughable. Benicio Del Toro, why? Just why? What a waste. Laura Dern, why? Just why? What a waste. Kelly Marie Tran, why? Just why? What a waste. The whole casino thing, why? Someone tell me why I should give two fcuks about those kids who were taking care of the whatever they were racing animals. That whole thing was a complete waste, what they were trying to do didn't even matter because the ships were never going to go to light speed.
I liked it overall... didn't love it though, like I did TFA (and FWIW I never really loved Rogue One). I wish they would have removed the whole Benecio Del Toro angle, and I didn't understand the need for Laura Dern's character either. I don't like how Snoke was killed, but really, I don't know what else they could have done with him. He was clearly too powerful with the force to be killed in a lightsaber battle by anyone, but making him so powerful was a bad move in the first place. He was just a plot device for Kylo Ren. Sucks but whatever. I wasn't ever really interested in Snoke to begin with. Oh and I didn't really care for Kelly Marie Tran's character. Kinda forced down our throats there and I just didn't buy it. Eliminating (or in KMT's case, reducing) those 3 characters/angles would have taken out most of the bad parts and would have made the movie shorter. This sequel series wasn't exactly in need of more characters; there are so many as-is. I'm thinking (/hoping) it will be better on a second viewing.
All the original Star Wars fans are crotchety hermit Luke. All the people who liked this movie is the boy at the end. Let's look back at this thread in 20 years and see the love hate cycle come back full circle. And for the guy who said something about osmosis and Rey. He must like to read things way too literally. You don't need a book to tell you what's wrong or right. Rey knows that, Luke didn't. Not even sure what the hell he's talking about for the violence and SJWs. Would debate but it'd go over his head.
Spoiler - Luke Skywalker's character died from poor writing, not "ascension". Mark did fine, but he was robbed of portraying Luke in any way that felt like Luke. I don't think it's so hard to believe that Luke, after several decades and failing to prevent his nephew from turning to the dark side, would feel disconnected from the force and the Jedi way. Shoot I even saw a little bit of hermit Yoda in him the way he treated Rey at first. To add to that, I actually loved the lightsaber flipping to when she handed it to him. Completely unexpected, a bit ballsy of Rian Johnson, but makes sense considering where the story went from there. - Rey is now a completely ridiculous character. No history, nothing that connects her into the story or that should give her motivation, and super powers that basically required zero training or direction for her to acquire. As yoda said "she knows all of (the stuff in the ancient text)"...uh how? Osmosis? Also, some friendship/love connection she's got going with Fin when they don't see each other until the end of the movie. The whole point of the movie, at least one of them, was to argue that the Force is everywhere and in everyone. You don't have to be a Skywalker to be a Jedi or to defeat an empire. I think her character is even deeper now, because she has to find her own path and place in all this. She has powers, but they definitely are still raw. Yoda's comment was a bit metaphorical and literal at the same time. I don't think he's suggesting she's read those books from cover to cover, but merely it's time to look beyond those books and recognize that the Jedi were not infallible. Plus, if you noticed, she took the books with her anyways. Her friendship with Finn remember stems from their time together in Force Awakens, and those events were only a few days prior to TLJ and the TLJ probably only spanned several days too. - Rebel Starships run out of gas, but Star destroyers don't...I guess?? Do the destroyers get better MPG? Nitpicking, but a whole First Order fleet was chasing after several Rebel cruisers. Not hard to believe that the First Order was prepared to chase them until they gave up. - Snoke...lol. All powerful...uh whatever he is...destroyed in an instant because he can't sense the force being used right next to him by a boy he knows has self doubts...seems legit. Per Luke in ROTJ to the Emperor, "Your overconfidence is your weakness." If Palpatine can't foresee Vader's emotional conflict and betrayal, not hard to fathom Snoke wouldn't see Ren coming when Snoke was happily preoccupied with destroying Rey. - When Ray goes into the "dark place" on the island and sees herself in those infinite mirrors...what's the point? She feels confused and unsure of her place and who she is and who her parents are, so she's searching for answers but only sees herself. She needs to choose for herself what she wants to be. - Who doesn't love a poorly constructed love triangle where none of the relationships in any direction were developed...like at all? Didn't notice a love triangle, unless you're talking of Finn, Rey and Rose. I thought it was pretty clear after Force Awakens that Rey friendzoned him. - why are all the women basically the same? Why are all the men basically the same? Not sure what to make of this. Finn, Poe, Luke, Kylo...all driven by different things. Same with Rey, Leia and Rose. I certainly didn't love the movie after first viewing and it had it's flaws, but man, some of the hate I see is a bit ridiculous. People hate on the prequels and now the sequels, and hold the Originals up to some high standard and yet fail to recognize the faults in those. I love Star Wars. Period. Some films better than others. But I'll take an average to mediocre Star Wars film over a lot of other crap any day. I'm also enjoying the fact that my 10 year old son is growing up with a new trilogy to enjoy. He liked Force Awakens and I'm pretty confident he'll enjoy this.
Yeah, I am willing to suspend disbelief to a very large extent, but if this movie has what you describe it is beyond the pale. Jeebus! Spoiler A body floating in space, even a dead one, would not last very long. If no sun were nearby, it would be a race between turning into an ice cube versus violent out-gassing and expansion before everything froze. Our bodies are set with a tremendous outward pressure (atmospheric pressure balance), so even a finger in space would become a near explosion. Early balloon pioneers in human history had some horrific injuries even going to high altitude, never mind outer space. I hate that kids are exposed to science this bad, if I'm understanding your description.
The movie was too long. One can criticize Lucas for his character dialog, but his movies are well plotted and well paced. TLJ seemed overplotted and slow paced. The crowd,I saw the movie with, left the theater nonplussed. The RT score thus is no surprise.
