Colin Kaepernick protests anthem due to treatment of minorities

The article was written in 2017 but is referencing the start of the protests. He's talking about when he first kneeled with Kap in 2016.

The stats disagree with it being a false narrative. You are mistaken if you think this is ALL because of Mike Brown or Gardner or whoever. It isn't. Period. You realize there were protests against police brutality way before BLM, right?

 

of course that's what it is doing, it's trying to re-write the early history of the protests because of how badly they were being perceived based on the actual history. That was my point.

They really don't. The stats show that there's no evidence to support the narrative that police officers are more likely to use deadly force on black people...in fact the narrative was completely debunked by the "stats" and that's why they've had to spin things.

The recent protests are and have always been based on the perception of something being true rather than that thing actually being true. Basically there are people who feel oppressed and they'll feel that way even when it is proven to not be the case. In fact, if you spell out to them how they aren't actually being oppressed, they'd see it as oppression....because they are damaged people.

Shitty parents who teach their children that they are oppressed are every bit as bad as shitty parents who teach their kids to hate people who are different....because it's essentially the same thing.

 

Then why even protest using those lies as rallying cries?

 

The arbiter of what's "goofy" is society, therefore, they create the perception, positive or negative. There is no justifiable reason why a name like "DeSean" is goofy while another name like "Larry" is not goofy. DeSean is derived from Sean, and Larry is derived from Lawrence. Similarly Marquise (derived from Marcus) or LaRhonda (from Rhonda). Are you going to argue that parents who named their child Larry are perpetuating a perception of being low class as well? I'd like to see a Larry Smith vs. Greg Smith comparison of resumes to see if one is markedly more likely to get callbacks than the other.

So in conclusion, the predominantly white society in America, made the arbitrary decision to perceive names that primarily come from black people to be goofy with no justification, therefore resulting in discrimination against black people.

 

You are just again ignoring what they have actually said. you can't actually provide me with a quote where I'm wrong here, unless you show me that other quote all while ignoring the first part of his sentence. Nothing Kap said then contradicts anything in the article.

This is flat out wrong. The stats DO show that police officers are more likely to use deadly force. I will link one more time and if you don't provide your proof I will not even respond.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/08/the-counted-police-killings-2016-young-black-men



I will not waste my time arguing with people that just disregard facts because it proves that they are wrong.

You said the narrative was debunked by stats, so provide them.

I've actually provided you with studies and stats that would tell you that their 'feelings' are actual reality.

You have not countered anything I've posted. Until you provide actual proof that these are delusions, I will assume you are the one going on your feelings and not them.

If you're going to make such a strong statement, give me something to actually grab onto. Right now I've seen nothing but your opinion on the matter and honestly, your opinion (or mines) means little in this discussion.

Unless...they are really oppressed. You haven't proven to me that they aren't. Don't give me the argument that "It's not like pre-50s or slavery" I'm sorry, but the fact is it exists. You can continue to ignore it, it doesn't help you convince this group of people to agree with your political ideas. Why should they listen to right wing politics when it seems so determined to completely ignore their grievances?

I mean really, the stat about black college kids vs white high school dropouts should be telling.

Here is one from this year on convictions...

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...gly-convicted-of-murder-more-often-data-shows

Again, this exists, can't be ignored. If it were your son wasting years of his life in prison for a crime he didn't do, how would you feel? How do you think this would affect his life?

Also, unless you actually provide some data, studies, or something other than just your opinion I'm done with this argument. You claim that these studies are either false, irrelevant, or in some way incorrect then why? Are there contradicting studies? Let's see them.

 

When people randomly start making up goofy ass versions of common names, it's going to be viewed as weird more often than not. When it is predominately uneducated low class people doing so, it's going to be perceived as something that uneducated low class people do. Sorry if you don't like that or can't understand it, but your shortcomings won't change anything. It's got nothing at all to do with "white society", it's just society as a whole.

 

Everyone protests how they see fit. Protesters aren't a monolith getting instructions from the man behind the curtain. Why do you hide behind this claim of the rallying cry to deflect from the issues? You've brought up Michael Brown many times to deflect as if any one incident means more than any other. It's not one incident, it's tens of thousands of incidents over decades. Just the other day 15 people in Chicago were released because of police corruption. I think yesterday LAPD was on a body cam planting drugs on a guy. Baltimore PD had two videos like that in the same month a while back. There is a systemic issue.

 

No, I'm paying attention to what was said at the start and ignoring the spin a year later. You ignore what they initially said and focus entirely on the spin a year later. It is what it is.

LOL again this is based on outcome so it doesn't debunk anything. When a group is only 13% of the population and they commit 52% of the murders in the country, they are going to have a LOT more potentially violent interactions with police so they should have a MUCH higher rate of negative outcomes overall due to their small population and large number of incidents. If you controlled for those facts, you'd get a MUCH different picture.

 

Wrong. You ignore what they initially said.

Hint, read the title of the thread.

Let's see here...you didn't counter ANYTHING I posted. You were flat out wrong. Not admitting it and being stubborn about it isn't a good look. You said, and I quote "The stats show that there's no evidence to support the narrative that police officers are more likely to use deadly force on black people"

So, I brought forth the very stat that shows that. You have not provided any study that disproves or contradicts this, it's all your feelings really.

NOT only that, I also brought forth another study about exonerations. Did you know this also applies for...oh my...Murders? Do you know that the FBI stats that you count there do not account for murder exonerations? So that number is flawed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/07/us/wrongful-convictions-race-exoneration.html?_r=0

But I know you won't read it. You'll punch out some excuse, claim you have 'facts' on your side, provide none, and then do a victory dance or something.

It's quite sad talking about these issues with conservatives. A discussion can't even begin because they outright deny studies, research, and facts for their own anecdotes. They then deny anecdotes from the very victims and fail to see the hypocrisy...oh and then will imply black people are stupid or naive for being liberal and wonder "Man, why aren't there more black conservatives?"

By the way, your 'assumption' is wrong. Not surprisingly. You know how I know it is wrong? Because the states with the highest murder rate somehow aren't the states that have the highest rate . Not only that, some of these people are being killed during TRAFFIC STOPS.

If you actually READ what I linked, maybe you would not have come to that conclusion you did. 29%, 29% of 2016's police killings were because of traffic stops. Your conclusion assumes they are all after murderers when a large chunk of them are domestic violence calls and traffic stops.

So Bobby, tell me, how many of the police shootings were due to murder suspects, traffic stops, domestic violence calls and what is the racial breakdown between them? Either this data exists and you withheld it for some reason, or you pulled your conclusion out of your behind.

 

That article focuses on a study about people misjudging the height and weight of people from photos of just their face. I do not really see how this applies to a sentencing judge sitting in-person with the convicted individual in custody - restrained in handcuffs with security personnel present in the room.

That article also does not state whether other minorities have their height and weight overestimated.

 

And crying wolf (especially with high profile incidents) undermines any legitimate effort to bring about change. As invested in this as you are you'd think you would want to eliminate obstacles that damage the efforts to bring about the change you seek. It's your crusade, have the balls to stand up to those in your own camp who dishonestly crucify police officers who just did their job.

 

Oh, is this your conclusion based on what research actually? I'm supposed to take your conclusion over theirs? What's your background, what do you study?

If you ran the study, what purpose would there be in showing bodies instead of faces? Obviously, if you put Kyrie next to Marc Gasol one is smaller than the other and people would then pick Kyrie as the smaller person. So, since you seem to have some knowledge about how to carry out such research, how would you do it?

Also, there are other studies led by different researchers that reach similar conclusions...
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/03/black-boys-older.aspx

Your opinion.

Also, don't change the subject, you asked me "What are the stereotypes that black people have?" and I linked you a study about it.

What is the point? You asked about the stereotypes of BLACK people. Can you provide me the stereotypes of other minorities and why they are relevant?

 

All I'm hearing is that you are justifying something that disproportionately discriminates against black people even though there is no valid reason that it should.

Bobbythegreat the defender of discriminatory practices.

 

The issue here is that you are posting things that show different outcomes with the factors that led to those different outcomes omitted and just assume that race was the only difference. That's not how you get to an honest conclusion. You can post 100 studies that show difference of outcome without ever posting anything relevant to this discussion.

When one group is disproportionately represented when it comes to certain violent crimes such as murder, robbery, burglary, aggravated assault, and illegal weapons possession they'll be disproportionately represented when it comes to violent interactions with police....how does that not make sense to you? Also when you say that shootings were "due to traffic stops", was that really the reason, or did a traffic stop escalate into a shooting due to other factors like outstanding warrants, drug possession, and illegal weapon possession?

I keep telling you that you can't look at outcomes when you are comparing dissimilar groups but you keep doing it anyway because you simply want to blame things on the racism boogie man rather than looking at the rational reasons for differences in outcomes.

 

It's something that would affect anyone, but it is done more often by certain groups, so whose fault is it really? The fad of giving your kids goofy ass names isn't an inherently black thing, it's just most popular in that group. We can say that you shouldn't discriminate against Dr Herpes Sanchez based on the name he was given, and in a perfect world no one would, but....well that's not reality.

I'm not sure why you are struggling to understand that.

 

JayGoogle - would you say that blacks and whites treat police officers the same way when they interact?

 

More opinions that you are claiming as fact, more denial of actual facts.

Bobby, do you know the % of traffic stop kills by race, yes or no? Do you realize this makes up 29% of police kills? When you bring up "due to other factors" you need to actually PROVE those other factors. Otherwise, you just pulled the idea out of nowhere. So, Bobby, how many of these traffic stops are for outstanding warrants, drug possession, and illegal weapon possession?

 

Impossible to know.

All depends on the individual. There isn't any kind of 'black' or 'white' way to interact with cops. Sandra Bland and Castille handled it differently, wouldn't you say?

 

Oh, another "difference of outcome" metric? How valuable!

Again, you aren't comparing similar groups so you won't get similar outcomes. One group is disproportionately represented when it comes to certain violent crimes such as murder, robbery, burglary, aggravated assault, and illegal weapons possession as a result you get more negative interactions with police.....even during traffic stops. It doesn't matter if the stop was for running a stop sign if the person pulled over has factors that would lead to his potential arrest and imprisonment. Usually that's what escalates traffic stops into more than that. Sure sometimes you get people just being idiots like Sandra Bland, but those types of situations are outliers.

 

Then the "conclusive data" you provided above (from the Guardian, of all sources) is trash.