not surprised. story of haters here b****ing and whining then realizing he's our best option acting like rockets FO, coaching, and roster can go farther by simply replacing Harden
Cavs have been to 3 straight Finals, including last year. They were also worse record wise than the Celtics last year, but still were clearly better than them. I do not put the Rockets above the Cavs last year, and I make no predictions about the Rockets being x or y or z when CP3 comes back. Many thought the Thunder were the clear #2 on paper before the season and look at them at the moment. Do I advocate tanking right at this moment? Of course not. They are on the course they're on for this season. Let's see what happens in the playoffs. What do you think they should do though if in the playoffs they are out in the 2nd round? Or in the third round with another super low game or two by Harden? I'm not saying you tank then I'm just asking what do you do? Resign CP3?
Somebody bumped it based on Harden's crazy awesome night the other night to rub it in the faces of some of us I've made it my personal mission to keep it alive, lol!! In all seriousness, ignoring the "trade Harden" absolute... isn't Harden's ability to be a #1 guy and lead the team to ring(s) in today's NBA the absolute core of what matters for the next 5 years? I mean we can discuss Capela, or Luke or Ryan Anderson endlessly, but the bigger picture question is, is Harden "that" guy?
not sure what this has to do with the rockets not being better than the cavs rockets 55 wins in the west cavs 51 wins in the least if harden has another mvp runner up season then we do get bumped out of the 2nd round do you 1 legit superstar + 1 aging/injured superstar won't cut it and improve the team or do you say lets get rid of our lone legit superstar for picks and rebuild?
In at least the first half of your post, you are repeating everything you've already said while I gave you further rebuttals in my previous post. As for Russ, he was still pretty garbage... it's just that the Rockets were even more garbage for some of that series. He shot atrociously, especially in the 4th quarters when he went into hero ball mode. And IIRC, there were only about 4-5 quarters worth of basketball where OKC outscored Hou with WB on the floor, but I could be wrong. Do you not remember that 4th quarter where he went, what was it, 1-18? And that was not a one-time occurrence... You fell under a bit of a hater-label to me when you suggested trading Harden for two completely unproven quantities... That rarely works out, especially near term, when you're talking about a talent on Harden's level. Every dog has their day (or their quarter or two). No one is saying Harden did it alone, or that he could win the playoffs with D-leaguers around him. But you'd have to be pretty foolish to not recognize that Harden was by far and away our best player in both regular season and playoffs in 2015... We don't even make the playoffs without him in the west, let alone beat two playoff teams. Yeah, game six was awesome, and we all know Harden wasn't part of that, but that doesn't take away from the rest of what he did. Plus, it's actually a statement on part of his value to this team that he was cheering from the sideline and came back strong in game 7 without any pouting. Can you imagine someone like that b**** Dwight handling that well?
In the current spot/situation/time we are in, Harden CAN be that guy so yes. You roll the dice with him as he is the best chance we have right now to win it all. The guy is 28 and he wants to be here. I understand the appeal of trading him for a young player with high potential but what young player in recent years has elevated a team from basketball purgatory to championship contender in a short time span other than Lebron? Roll with Harden for the next couple of seasons and hope for the best.
you don't think GSW couldn't have won it all in 2015 if they replaced mvp curry with players mvp harden? or last year if iron man Harden replaced injured KD? you gotta realize the rockets FO, coaching staff, and roster around harden is not contender material. simply adding superstar don't make them contenders. who would you have traded harden for last year who could have guaranteed us to go WCFs?
Can you give some real world examples for (i)? And what do you suggest we do with the rest of the roster full of 31, 32 year olds in (ii)? If the answer is to trade them aswell, has this ever been done before in NBA history, a top 5 team trading everyone on the team to tank? If not, can you tell us why not, just that no one has come up with this idea before? Or some other impediment?
How is regular season 100% end all be all if Celtics > Cavs regular season, but Cavs > Celtics playoffs?? If I'm doing a "final" ranking from last year, GSW = #1, Cavs = #2... and I doubt you'd find many/any analysts that'd disagree with that.
Lol and this is why your assessment should hold no weight. Randle is about to get dumped from the Lakers who are high quality basura, and Lakers fans love to moan about how he can’t even play in control of his body.
Sorry, I never saw any rebuttals other than you changing your pretty sure to absolute (for some reason) and then going on to ask questions about guys like AI... one man offense type guys. I've given you tons of stats now. They say Harden dips worse than his peers, in a meaningful way. He wasn't garbage. He was inefficient, and then compounded that in the 4th quarters when he would come in pissed because the 7/8 point lead they had seemingly every game was gone when he went back in, then he'd go all hero and struggle, as that's his whole MO historically. Even with that, his +/- was -25, +11, +3, +14, +12 Absent game one, the Thunder were better than the Rockets when Russ was on the court. Well, if I start with the premise that Harden will never win the ring as the clear cut #1 guy [which I'm not 100% sold on, just am sold on the fact that it won't happen absent changes to his game], and my sole goal is to win ring(s) (as opposed to being satisfied with good season that still end in a loss), then my options to a path to get there would be: (i) Add guys that are better than him. Unfortunately because of the nature of the NBA, where the most dominant guys consistently get back to the Finals over and over again, we're talking about a small group of guys that aren't going to be traded anytime soon (you know who they are) or (ii) trade for an obvious inferior package, which basically serves the sole purpose of moving the window. Every one of these trades end up with completely unproven quantities by default. In other words, what other trade could be that is reasonable?? Which is how I end up feeling like the word "hater" is moronic. Not that there may not just be haters. I mean, sure, I hated Karl Malone for no other reason than he was on the other team. But here I'm just throwing out analysis and basically the ONLY conclusions from that. (1) Harden was under-performed in the playoffs more than your #1 guy should, and in some cases, REALLY underperformed (2) Regardless of talent around him, that has to change (3) If it doesn't change, you'd have been better off trading him, pushing your window down the road, and picking up as many high value, but unproven commodity assets as possible
Steph wasn't "that" guy until he and his whole team was put in the right system. Before that they were a middling team that no one feared. Before that Steph was injury prone and people questioned if his body could hold up to the NBA season, which is why he was only paid $10m a year until he resigned this summer. Lebron wasn't "that" guy until he joined Wade who already won a ring on his own. Before that there was constant questions of whether Lebron can deliver in the clutch, way more scrutinized than Harden. KD wasn't "that" guy until he literally joined a 73 win team. Those are the top 3 players in the entire NBA right now. What they all have in common is that none of them was "that" guy until they won it all and then all of a sudden It's obvious they were "that" guy. Another thing they all have in common is that they all played with either another "that" guy, Steph/KD, Russ/KD, Lebron/Miami Wade, or multiple allstars in Kyrie/Love/Bosh/Klay/Draymond. Meanwhile, the best player Harden has played with in Houston has been a shell of Dwight's former self, and he didn't even have that last year. So to conclude that Harden isn't "that" guy based on the team's failures, when he has had to carry the entire team while other "that" guys have played with superstars is a bit unfair to say the least.
Last year if Harden replaced KD is irrelevant. KD isn't option 1 on that team. Even if you say look how he did in the Finals, yada, yada. He joined an already historic team, which really got in its groove last year once KD got injured and then benefited from one of the best scorers in the game coming back and just scoring. Steph is that key guy. If Harden has to leave to join a team like that to win a ring, than its a pointless argument. As far as 2 years before when they won, no I'm not sold the GSW wins that ring with Harden. First and foremost because the system doesn't come together the same way.
Steph actually was nearly as good the year before Kerr came along. Not quite as good, obviously, but still very very good. Actually had more ppg the prior year, though on slightly worse though still amazing efficiency. Also he played 78 games both of the 2 years before Kerr got there. To me he was closer to the point already a guy that you could see as the #1 guy. Not the defensive liability or turnover machine Harden can be. But absolutely he wasn't "that" guy yet. And he had solid playoffs, but some whiffs of games, too. He's definitely a guy to look at as a good example. I'm not proclaiming Harden will NEVER get there. I just have doubts. Please... Lebron's clutch play was and remains scrutinized, but cmon. He was that guy and every knew that. KD's still not that guy. Which is part of my point. Similar to Russ. Similar to Harden. Do they need to go to teams where they're at best 1b to win a ring? KD seemed to think so... and he thought so partly because he knew he was going up against GSW anyway. Maybe KD in the 2000s can be that guy. But he figured he wasn't for these next 5 years. But that's KD... maybe Harden has it in him. No on Lebron. But yes, we might not know who these guys are until we know who they are... that doesn't mean you can't opine on them beforehand. I think you haven't read what I've said. I'm not making conclusions based on Harden because of team performance, I'm very concerned about his playoff performances irrespective of what happened with the team. I mean Game 5 against SAS can happen sometimes. He came back in the 4th, didn't have it, was tired, whatever. But then to follow-that up with Game 6?? And EVEN if he follows it up with a bad game 6, his shot is off, he's pressing again, that's still not what happened, all that was true plus it was just a ridiculous effort of a performance. Basically your post is saying Harden can change. I sincerely hope so!
Not sure about historically. Probably not though. Generally speaking, as you note, teams that are really close keep trying to get over that mountain with tweaks and changes every offseason. In hindsight, would the Jazz, or old school Pacers, or old school Knicks, or old school Sonics, etc have done things differently if they knew their ultimate fates? Who knows. Until 3 years ago, no jump shooting team had ever won a ring. But your point is noted. Just to consider your questions, though... if let's just say the Rockets were able to get the equivalent of 3 TOP 3 picks in the next 2 drafts for Harden. I know not really possible, but just to throw it out there, as something that I think, if another playoff exit where Harden underperforms happens, and somehow the Rockets had that in front of him, many on the board would seriously consider that. Well I think sure, you keep Capela (young), move Gordon for future assets type (should be possible), try and sign and trade CP3 for picks/young players or let him walk, try and move on from Ariza/Anderson as best you can, if not keep them.
