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John Kelly: 'The lack of an ability to compromise led to the Civil War'

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by KingCheetah, Oct 31, 2017.

  1. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    Normally when one blamed "lack of compromise" for something they are saying that they would have compromised, they wish they would have compromised, etc.

    You wouldn't say "A lack of compromise is to blame for me losing the business and I wouldn't change it" or "Lack of compromise caused the war and that's a good thing." Blaming lack of compromise is blaming "both sides" for not finding a solution. In this case the only solution for the South, the "compromise" was the continued expansion of slavery in new territories and a promise not to end slavery in the South. Their "compromise" was keep the nation divided between slave and non-slave states. Don't tell them what to do and everyone will be happy.
     
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  2. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    It's a both sides statement for sure.

    Echoing the other poster about not needing to apply today's morality because their contemporaries judged them just fine...

    Lee's contemporaries judged him. The rest of the civilized world at the time had moved away from slavery and judged us for continuing it. We fought a war because contemporaries judged slavery to be wrong. Lee himself had a messed up view that it was wrong. The modern day attempt to erase blame by saying "things were different, they didn't know it was wrong, etc." is nonsense.
     
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  3. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy

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    I think with something as big as the Mueller investigation indictments you would need a much larger diversion - perhaps a Muslim terror attack in New York would work. Important people are discussing...
     
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  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I've said this before with previous discussions about Lee. There is a lot to admire about him and he did have a very complicated view of slavery. He chose to fight for a flawed cause that even he knew was going to have a lot of difficulty winning. Honorable maybe but not a great man. If he had been a great man he would've been able to look past his own limited context and loyalty to the greater good. He could've chosen to accept command of the North and ended the war much sooner with far less loss of life than what happend. As Union military commander he also might've been in a position to guide the Reconstruction of the South to be less punitive and helped to unite the country again.
     
  5. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Are you sure that important people have time since they are fully engaged and talking about Hillary's Russia collusions?
     
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  6. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    What on earth was troubling about that? That anyone could even think what he said in that press conferencing is 'troubling' is...troubling. It wasn't even a political stance...he just laid out what happens in that instance, and the advice he gave Trump on how to handle it (starting with his advice that he shouldn't even make the call). Anyone who found that press conference troubling needs to take a serious look at themselves and their ability to objectively view...anything.
     
  7. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    We are much better off as a nation that compromise became untenable and we moved to a complete defeat of the wrong position and complete victory for the right position. So, compromise might have somehow avoided the Civil War but there is nothing good in avoiding it. The same for this statue heritage debate that prompted it. I don't want compromise on it; I want complete lopsided victory. The people who think it's still okay to fly a rebel flag and publicly honor our traitors are flat wrong. I don't see better prospects for compromise on that score than we had for slavery.
     
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  8. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    You forgot some parts of his speech, given your summary.
     
  9. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    It just goes to show that compromise is not always a good thing, doesn't it? Let's keep that filed away, so that we can remember that later when we need to, shall we? This whole idea about whether "compromise" is necessarily the best choice will come up again, and probably in the not too far distant future.
     
  10. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

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    Sure you can put me on the record that compromise is not always a good thing. That seems like an obvious point to concede.
     
  11. Buck Turgidson

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    I never thought that it was a point of contention.
     
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  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Republicans suck at compromise anyway. They can't even compromise with each when they control every part of government.
     
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  13. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    Actually, that is correct. The parts about his (mis)statements about Wilson. I retract my previous statements....those parts are indeed troubling. And basically unnecessary in the speech he gave at that conference.
     
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  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    So you're not troubled by the parts about Rep. Wilson that were completely contradicted by video evidence? The part where he said that women were once held sacred ignoring the fact that discrimination was much worse towards women in the past?

    [Edit] I see you responded earlier and glad to see that you reconsidered your position.
     
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    What on earth is troubling about the President starting his second fight in about a year with a grieving gold star family and sending his chief of staff out there to tell lies and ruin his own reputation to prove his loyalty?

    Just ****ing everything. The fact that it exists or that I had to even type this.

    I know you've been conditioned to eat **** sandwiches all day since January or before but . . . this is not normal.

    You'll either thank me for reminding you one day or well all be too screwed to care if not.
     
  16. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    If Kelly is willing to bend over this far for Mr. trump, god knows what else Kelly is capable of. Saying, "Sure! Why not?" when trump brings up war with North Korea?
     
  17. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Honest question - Has anyone ever entered a partnership, business, or political that has led to the partner thriving?

    And I'm not talking about people around him that have benefited off of a scam, or gotten notoriety for being Trump-lite ala Kelleyanne, Amarosa, Bannon, etc. I'd argue that while their profiles have been raised, their profile after leaving Trump's orbit will be worse than it was when they got in bed with him.

    Kelly started off as a war hero, gold star father, five star general, and the picture of American honor. How is he going to be looked at now in a couple of years? What will he have gotten out of it?
     
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  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I'm not sure this is Kelly bending over backwards for Trump. Maybe this is what he actually thinks and that is one reason why Trump is comfortable with him.
     
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  19. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    For some reason, that doesn't make me feel better. ;)
     

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