Pitching only works if you give up 0 runs? We dont know what the alternative wouldve been. So you cant say with 100% confidence that the verlander move didnt work. Verlander gave up 2 runs. What if harris, musgrove, or morton gave up 3 or 4 runs? In that hypothetical scenario it did work. Either way, ignore that engineer or accountant perspective for a second and think about the emotional perspective in managing. You dont think putting verlander in sent a message to the team? Certainly seems that way based on the post game interviews.
I guess if this is the way you look at it then it can't be said with certainty whether it did or didn't work... What if Verlander gave up 4 runs but the offense scored 15 runs? Still a good move? I digress...
Come on man don’t be a troll. I’m not saying pitching only works if 0 runs are given up. All I said is he blew the lead so in my eyes the move didn’t work. Now to your “what if” game, I’ll bite. You’re right, what if he brought in musgrove or someone else and they gave up 5 runs. Ok let’s play the what if game for you, what if he brought in musgrove instead and he gave up 0 runs? Do you now see how asking something like that is completely ridiculous? You’re question was our thoughts on the Verlander decision. My response is it didn’t work cause he gave up the lead. I have explained myself to yolo, some other guy, and yourself. In the end we won the game because Verlander and Giles settles in after that and our offense put up three runs. All I wanted is to do was save Verlander Incase it went to a game five. Anyways we won and are on our way to the ALCS.
My response to you wasnt about why the verlander decision worked. My response to you was about why you cant use the 2 run homer to say with 100% confidence that it didnt work. I cant say with 100% that it did work either though. My OP isnt about whether or not “it worked”. It is about why I thought it was a smart and well informed decision for hinch to put him in. Its a very fair perspective to say you didnt like the move but the 2 run homer is not a good argument against it being a good decision by hinch because you dont know how many runs wouldve been scored without verlander. It is better to argue for or against the decision making process rather than the results.
Exactly. Im in agreement with you there. Thats why the 2 run homer doesnt support any argument that it didnt work and the fact that we won doesnt support an argument that it did work. I argued for it being a smart move, I didnt argue for it “working” or not. I based my argument on the decision making process behind it in my OP. I tried to think from the perspective of a manager who doesnt have the luxury of hindsight. The best way to argue for it being a good move or not is to argue for or against the decision making process. Daryl Morey and Sam Hinkie have given plenty of interviews how the only true way to judge the performance of decision makers is too evaluate the decision making process. And it is absolutely a fair perspective to not like the move (i liked it). Ive seen valid criticisms about the decision making process like putting him in after the inning already started knowing that it was his 1st relief appearance.
I realize that. Yolo is the one trying to tell people "it worked." If you disagree with him you are stupid.
i guess you should probably take you're own advice once again. yeah you are pretty stupid. bc no where did i saying specifically it worked in itself. it was part of the W. You are the one telling everyone it "DID NOT WORK"
Everybody needs to keep in mind the difficulty of balancing the urgency to win game 4 with the need to prepare for game 5. So let's take a deeper dive and explore the various options. Here's the situation: you're leading 2-1 with one out in the bottom of the 5th - you need to find at least 14 outs; Giles has not pitched since Friday so you know, if necessary, he's available for as many as six of those outs - but you're likely *only* pitching him prior to the 9th if you have a lead; You cannot pitch Keuchel because he's your game 5 starter. If you have Giles penciled in for the 8th & 9th - and they did have the lead at this point - you need 8 outs. You're already down Morton + keep in mind, the Astros only carried 11 pitchers instead of their customary 12, which leaves you 8 choices. And while you could conceivably turn to Peacock or McCullers, they threw 58 and 49 pitches the day before and were, almost certainly, unavailable. That leaves you six choices: Verlander, Devo, Harris, Musgrove, Liriano, Gregerson. Let's scratch Liriano off. While he would've faced a LH, you needed 2 outs, not 1, and Betts (R) was on deck, forcing you to likely burn two pitchers to get 2 outs. Plus, he'd pitched the day before (and, as we know, not terribly well). Devo, Musgrove & Gregerson had all thrown the day before, too. They were conceivably available - but you're possibly going to need them for game 5 so you want to be careful. That essentially leaves Harris & Verlander - but remember: you need *at least* 8 outs. Harris has exactly one outing of 2 innings; the other 45 are less than 2 innings. And, again - this is presuming you can turn the game over to Giles in the 8th. What if it's tied in the 8th and now you need at least 11 outs to get to Giles? Or what if we go to extra innings? Do you really want to start #bullpenning in a non must-win when, if you lose, you'll face a must-win? So the absolute best option for getting 8 outs while also still being capable of getting more, if necessary, is also the best pitcher in baseball the past month. I'm struggling to see why it's a *bad* decision.
posted to move on yet you still trying to defend your stupidity or it just looks like you dont understand what you're actually posting
Lol, i hate that mindset. That mindset is a cancer on honest clutchfans sports conversations. Im not assuming anyone that disagrees with me knows any more or less about baseball than me. Ive said that I absolutely think being against the move is a legitimate and fair point. If you check the game thread, I hated it when he was warming up.
Yeah that was my mistake. You're the one that keeps coming back full throttle. If it bothers you that much just put me on ignore and I can do the same. Problem solved.
Quality post about all the factors hinch had to weigh during his decision making process at that moment.
Is it just me or are @YOLO and @smitheygerard talking to each other like street attackers? I wish @loneblade was around to tell me what to do when street attackers are nearby
