ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Thunder 10/3/2017 (Preseason Game 1)

What made me really excited is that when Melo would ask for a pick and the defenders would switch, it would switch from Tucker to Luch to CP3 or Ariza, that's a luxury we've never had, we've always relied on Ariza being our lock down wing defender. Dis gon be fun

 

My thoughts on the game:
1. Melo was awesome, he played elite two way bball I was very impressed with him the whole game and now reallu wish the Rox was able to dump Anderson for him without giving up anything else. He is gonna be big for OKC unless Westbrick mucks everything up with his ball hog tendencies.

2. Paul George was ok, he was contained by 3Za and Luc as well as anybody and while he did end up with 15 pts he didn't seem that impactful to me. He also shot only 1-3. It is early however it seems to me that Melo might actually be the best 3 pter between the 3 of them and thats horrible in terms of spacing. Okc can end up struggling with "fit" problems all season long.

3. As good as Melo was, Anderson played horribly this game. Shooting 3-7 for 3 pts is actually really good, the problem is he didn't shoot enough and so it didn't justify his inadequencies on def and boards. I know the Anderson brigade will get on me again but it is very telling that Anderson played less mins than all the other starters+Gordon, Luc and Tucker. And yes, he did suffer a hip injury thats why he didn't enter the game anymore but remember Big Dick Nene is also out this game. The leash on Anderson is very tight this season as Nene, Tucker, Luc and even Joe Chee are hungry for PT. He needs to start firing it up from the get go.

4. Wow Tucker and Luc are two of the most versatile players in the league able to play 4 positions. Am really happy with their signings esp Luc at vet min has got to be one of the best steals this offseason.

5 Gordon has become our 3rd star, having cp3 or James as the playmaker has enabled him to just focus on scoring and he has unleashed the Kraken. Okc was boasting with PG and Roberson they boast the best perimeter defense in the NBA but Gordon tore through them like they were tissue papers with a blistering 6-8 from 3s.

I am really excited for the season, looks like only CLE and GSW are our opponents

 

I finally know why people called CP3 basketball God. Harden's 7 turnovers makes his play ugly to watch. Why dont he give the damn ball to CP3 to create shots when CP3 on the court, instead of turnover after turnover?
I noticed that Harden always stand still without any move when ball not in his hand. SMH.

 

Exactly
Melo and PG are going to have to get used to watching THE WESTBRICK SHOW night in and night out

 

Everybody keeps talking about chemistry between Harden and Paul.
OKC is going to have it worse with 3 stars to feed.
Melo had a good first half, but he won't see half those shots with Westbrick in the game

 

And yet somehow, Ryno was +21 while Melo a -14.. elite spacing + bad defense > volume + bad defense.

 

First let me say you guys look awsome already. CP3 and Harden will play really great one off another, which I knew would happen. That's why I wanted my ***** Melo here in the first place. You've got a helluva shooting team here in Houston!
Having said that, OKC is going to look much, much better when Russ comes back. And not only him, two more of 8 best OKC's players did not play, Paterson and Abrines. They are important players in rotation.
Now, you're saying that when Russ comes back, he will take away shots from Melo and PG. That's true to some degree of course. But does Harden take away shots from Anderson more than he helps his game by demanding attention? Of course not. These players only help their teammates and make them look much much better. So in my opinion, it is also true that he will make game a lot easier for Melo and PG. His ability to blow by his defender and finish at the rim is matched by only a couple of guys in this league, if any, and that will make defences leave other guys on the floor open a lot of times. And you can't really tell he's selfish. He is not the most unselfish guy in this league, buy he is definitely not selfish, especially in this stage of his career, when there is only one thing left for him to do - win.
I hope you don't "attack" me like you did last time, I'm really not coming here to provoke anybody, just want some healty basketball discussion Cheers!

 

Why are the melo only fans still here lol

 

#WhyNot Just kidding, but really, why not? I'm here to talk basketball, I guess you are also.

 

No. Russ is not selfish. I learned a lot watching him jack up all those shots.
- Kevin Durant, former OKC supporting cast and newest GSW bandwagon member

 

Just don't take Westbrooks rebounds

 

Melo might not play selfishly, but both PG and WB are selfish as hell.

 

That is a very, very debatable statement.

In fact, I'd say the complete opposite was true of Westbrook last season. He didn't make anyone better.

 

+/- in single games have so many factors its practically useless. Melo was the only guy scoring for OKC, you think he actually cost them 14 pts?! Get outta here.

Anderson spent majority of his time playing with Harden and Cp3, guess what happens to the pt differential when you are in with those guys? OTH Melo was playing with starters who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Near the end of the 3rd quarter (after Htown built a 20 pt lead) Anderson suffered a hip injury so he didn't play anymore, and OKC didn't play their starters anymore either. What happened was Garbage Mamba and Troy Williams and co. came in and bricked everything and the lead got cut in half so MDa played the other starters in again to recover the lead. Guess what gonna happen to Anderson's +/- when the Rox's 20 pt lead goes down when he isn't playing?

When you look at the stats you also need to use your brain and see if the numbers make any freaking sense.

If Anderson was an amazing player who provides 20 pt differential and Melo is just a volume chucker how come Morey the analytics god was doing all he can to dump Ryan Anderson and get Melo? How come no team in the league was willing to get Anderson's contract even if Morey made him available way back in the trade deadline? You need to screenshot this boxscore +/- and sent it to Morey to realize how wrong he was for trying to trade away Anderson for Melo

 

The problem you have in OKC is spacing, Melo might be the best 3 pt shooter of those 3 guys and you want Melo in the post, not shooting 3s. There might also be issues with shots because all 3 likes to shoot a lot. What if WB was playing this game he would have taken shots from both Melo and PG and he would have bricked most of them (check out WB's efficiency stats it was horrible). WB also broke the usage record last year so will he be ok giving up the ball this year? I think not.

 

@roslolian
Thank you sir for that answer about Melo and Ryan! This is a proof that somebody can be objective here, just like I am trying to be. Statements like "Anderson>Melo" do don't bring nothing to healty basketball discussion on this forum.

@Downtown Sniper
I would like to answer your statement about "Russ didn't make anybody better" last year. Listen, I am from Serbia, my favourite player here in Europe for the last 10+ years is best passer in the world - Milos Teodosic. So you guess I have complete understanding of game of basketball, just like him. That's why I don't like to take any advanced stats as proof, i like to watch games and make my own judgement, but...

Do you know what is OKC's offensive ranking with and without Westbrook?
Regular season:
With +4.0
Without -8.5

Playoffs:
With +2.7
Without -60.1 (in just 46 minutes...had to make that one bold)

And since we are bringing some stats, let me give you the same stats for Harden:
Regular season:
With +6.9
Without +3.9

Playoffs:
With +0.9
Without +4.5 (also had to make that one bold)

And also same stats for 15/16 season playoffs, first Westbrook:
With +7.5
Without -3.4

Now Harden
With -21.5
Without -12.6

And do I come here claiming that Harden does not make his team better? NO! Exact opposite, I'm saying that he's making the game a lot easier for his teammates, and makes them look better with all defencive attention he's demanding.

And let mi add here Durant stats for 15/16 playoffs also, to show that OKC was statistically better with Russ on the court that with Durant on the court...
With +6.3
Without -0.7

If you want, check out same stats for Russ and KD in 2014 playoffs. They are showing the same thing. So to just come here and claim that Russell Westbrook does not make anybody better, or that he won't make this OKC team better when he comes back, just laughable man, really. I want objective and healty basketball discussion, backed up with facts instead of

One more thing, maybe a little bit off-topic, but I saw some of you here talking something like "NY asked us to gut our roster but didn't ask OKC the same"... Not true! The problem was that third year in Anderson's contract(and probably second year also, because Kanter's gonna opt out if he plays good season). Knicks want flexibility in 19/20 when they have to re-sign Porzingis. They already have Noah, Lee and Tim Hardaway making 50 millions combined.

 

Ok, I need to answer this one also. Remember all those wide-open 3 pointers Sabonis and Oladipo had last year? Now Melo and PG can take them. If you ask me, both Melo and PG are elite "catch and shoot" 3pt shooters. Both had something like 42% on those last year. So I don't quite think spacing will be problem. And if you ask me if Westbrook's will be ok giving up the ball this year, my answer would be - yes. What's the one thing left for him to do after tripple double MVP season? Win! And who is his enemy? Durant and the Warriors. I think he, in this stage of his career, understands what it takes to win, and I think he will adjust.

 

So you're saying... a team performs better when their best player is on the court?

That is absolutely shocking. All of Clutchfans thanks you for bringing that to our attention.

What you failed to address though in your long winded post, is that Westbrook doesn't make his teammates better.

Let me throw a matter of fact statement at you. When all other players on a team are expected to divert from playing their normal game and go out of their way to boost someone else's stats, they are not contributing to their fullest potential.

I await your next thesis that doesn't disprove anything I say.

 

What is your definition of "making somebody better" ?

 

I guess you are forgetting human nature. If Melo was an elite catch and shoot 3 pt shooter as you say how come he has developed a reputation for taking mid range shots and ISoing rather than shooting 3s? 42% from 3 is one of the best 3 pt %s ever, if he just focused on that then he would have been in the history books as a shooter so good he makes Ray Allen look like Dwight. Same with Paul George, if he was such a good 3 pt shooter how come in all those battles with Lebron back in Indiana he was always Iso-ing rather than catch and shooting? The reality is these two players might be ok with a spot up here and there but they still want the ball in their hands majority of the time. This is the difference in GSW because in GSW Klay Thompson is a dedicated spot up shooter while KD is also ok with off the ball so they don't have issues.

As for Westbrick OKC was ready to win way back when he had Durant but that didn't stop him from being a black hole, hence why KD left in the first place. And that's just with 2 guys, now you have 3 guys wanting the ball so I don't think it is gonna work out like you think it will. WB just got the MVP, rather than making him unselfish he is actually gonna become more selfish because OKC is HIS TEAM and he would want to repeat as MVP. Zebras don't change their stripes c'mon now.