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[Injury Report] Tucker dealing with strained hamstring

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by heypartner, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Nitpicking how to guard someone 28' out. There's really no defense for that, unless we are to say he shouldn't have dropped down to help position to begin with.

    Not flying out to the 28' shooter is arguably the best defense.

    I mean, typically, if you rush out to someone 28' out, you'd be flying and easy prey for a Head fake, and one dribble in for a 3 from the line. Maybe the defense is to let those guys shoot that far out, when defense calls for dropping down into help position like PJ did.

    Players at the line can't really do a headfake and step into the arc for a long two. They have to do that side step, or hope the guy flies way past them. The sidestep dribble is not quite as good as a step towards the basket. When you are 28' back and the defender rushes all the way out to contest, you can headfake and step right into a great look, and still be launching a three.
     
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  2. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    if you're a nimble agile defender you can rush out to the shooting hand and stop on a dime. he waddled like the top-heavy 32yr old he is. that's not to say there aren't positives that come with his build and experience as well -- nobody is going to be able to muscle him off his space for instance, and his anticipation is stellar. but then we also can't expect him to cover the floor and closeout like kawhi or giannis or roberson either.
     
  3. Zoplicone

    Zoplicone Member

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    I think some people are expecting too much from PJ. I got to see him quite a bit the second half of the season. Dude averaged under 6 points with Raps.

    He'll be a good bench player, he would make for an average starter (although in this West depending on what scale you consider could be below average)

    He really wasn't much of a player in the playoffs last year. The one thing he's got going for him is that he'll be playing with Chris Paul and James Harden, so hopefully that will inflate his play. Just remember he's 32 and been playing pro ball for ten years, so can't expect too much of an inflation.
     
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  4. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    28' out. Not really.

    What makes you think that isn't the planned defense. First off, he's playing the Scouting Team who should provide help against Harden drives and Alley Oops. That's the defense we will play against OKC tomorrow. Secondly, Show me some highlights of team defenses on 28ers. And for every time you show me someone contesting, I'll show you a defense that is too spread out, and susceptible to drives, PnRs.

    What we should really be talking about is how awesome a threat Ryno is to be able to hit 28'ers like only a handful of players can, and him being the ONLY big in the league who can.

    Bottomline: teams give Ryno that shot for a reason. Stop nitpicking how to defend a 28' shot. The best defense is likely exactly what he did. Provide help, then close to a normal three, and contain. Make him shoot the 28'er​
     
  5. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    so now i feel like you're nitpicking on my nitpicking of his closeout :D

    we'll have to agree to disagree, b/c i'll never believe that his D there was ideal for the situation. idealy the defender should have made a direct run up right to ryno's space, got his tiptoes with hand up. especially since ryno is not driving from there on anyone, especially a guy 4" shorter.

    and you prefer giving ryno the 28' footer, i prefer making him put the ball on the floor
     
  6. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    @pippendagimp
    I just don't think you noticed Ryno was 28' out, and still clinging to idea that's bad defense:

    The defense is not to guard ppl 28' out, because it spreads you out too far.

    Again, show highlights of defenders covering Ryno out to 28' and I'll show you a defender who isn't helping against the primary attack like PJ is in that video
     
  7. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    heypee i noticed how far ryno was out on 1st viewing. i couldn't say whether it was 27 or 28 or 30 feet, but that he was at least a few feet behind the arc. and on ryno specifically i think you have to close out hard, without fouling of course. worst case scenario then is he just passes it on anyways. if he hesitates or puts the ball on the floor, then that's even better than just giving him an open ~28' look
     
  8. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    You forget he is 4 feet back. Putting the ball on the floor is a mere head-fake, one dribble to the line and then he is stepping into a normal 3, in rhythm.

    No one rushes out from a help position to jump at ppl shooting 28ers.

    Show me ... you're just inventing a defense that no one does.

    You should be focusing on the value of Ryno being able to hit a 28er and what that means. There is a reason he's out that far, because the defenses in the NBA give him that shot....OR they spread themselves too thin.
     
  9. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    please show me when ryno has broke off and evaded the defender, dribbled several feet up, and drained the shot. even if he doesn't auto-brick shooting off the dribble, he'll just get the ish swatted out of him from behind ala vaginobli on beard. and just to clarify again, i am not saying the defender should just jump past him on the closeout, which would be an easy dribble up to the arc. i'm saying ideally the defender should stop short of ryno's right side and contest his right hand -- that is a lot more difficult for a guy like ryno to manouver around with the ball.
     
  10. onreego

    onreego Member

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    Basically, what neutralized Kashi in game 1 until they adjusted. Well, that and having Ryno camp in the corner at times.
     
  11. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Do you not know what a head-fake and one dribble to reposition is? Ryno and Ariza and Gordon do that all-the-time. It's not "shooting off the dribble."

    One step IS several feet....like ... uh ... three feet.

    You don't see 3pt shooters at the arc do that one dribble forward, because then they are shooting a Long 2. But, that is an easy dribble to step into a shot. And when you are 28' out, that one dribble forward puts you right at the 3pt line....walking right into an easy 3.
     
  12. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    wrong. you are talking about dribbling into the shot after the defender has already run by or even left his feet. but ryno is not getting by basically anyone with 1 dribble when they are positioned right in front of him.
     
  13. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Again, show me a defender positioned right in front of Ryno at 28', and I will show you a defense spread way too thin.

    Change the subject much.

    You were saying PJ should have recovered from his help defense to rush out and close on Anderson. That is running too much ground, and to get there makes you susceptible to a head fake, and step in three.

    The three here against Durant. Durant is given a head-fake at 28' and Ryno repositions by stepping in for better look.



    btw: the 2 threes before the step in on Durant are repositions to left and right.
     
  14. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    i feel like i'm repeating the same thing over and over again and you're just ignoring it. again, the defender not running past statue ryno, or biting on his weak fakes, but stopping just short of him and contesting his shooting hand. i've already said this 4 times!
     
  15. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    And you are just making up that defense. You can describe it all you want, but it doesn't exist.

    AGAIN,,,,
    Show me one video of a defender that deep in help (like PJ was) and recovering to a 28' shooter, more than PJ did.

    Nice try bashing PJ, though.
     
  16. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    good lord i am a pj fan since at least the past 6 years. my words from post #162: "nobody is going to be able to muscle him off his space for instance, and his anticipation is stellar"

    i've even compared him to super mario elie here.

    but it's simple logic that a hell of a lot of perimeter players are faster than PJ and therefore could/would cover that ground to the shooter faster than he does.
     
  17. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    It isn't simple logic. It's just a logical construct to invent a defense that doesn't exist.

    AGAIN, show me one video of a defender starting from near the restricted area to closing on a 28' shooter, without reckless abandon that makes you susceptible to a headfake or fouling the shooter.
     
  18. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    hold on, it isn't simple logic that A LOT of younger/lighter perimeter players are faster than tucker? what??@!
     
  19. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Again, show me video of that defense that PJ didn't play. Just one. Until then, you are inventing a defense that doesn't exist.

    Show me someone that is that deep in help coverage, and recovers to a 28' shooter.
     
    #179 heypartner, Oct 2, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
  20. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    ya there are going to be thousands of videos showing faster closeouts than tucker's
    again, tell me how tucker being slower than guys younger/lighter than him is not obvious.

    and here's your video, green recovering on ego and forcing him to put the ball on the floor
     

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