The United States should not operate its foreign policy based on fear of what a less powerful nation will do in retaliation when the U.S. does the correct thing. Being afraid of Russia is not the position of strength the United States should take. Russia's economy is nothing compared to that of the United States. We can handle whatever sanctions they want to throw at us. We can handle it much easier than they will be able to handle the sanctions against them.
Oh, I see. So before we have any conclusive investigation finished, you think as Freeman does that we are at "War", and some (as yet unnamed) sanctions are warranted regardless of the consequences of such unnamed sanctions. May I suggest you perhaps slow your roll before encouraging further worsening of relations until we have a complete investigation finished that has recommendations for next steps?
Except that the details of the investigation have already shown attacks on our democratic electoral process. I don't even think the GOP is disputing this anymore. The new talking point I thought was, "So what? Everyone does it and therefore it's ok." Here's what I don't understand. Why would you want to reward the country that conducted cyberwarfare against you by being buddy buddy with them? Is the United States supposed to be flattered that Russia took so much time into attempting to sway our electoral process just so they could get political gain to be on good terms with us? That's some psycho ex-gf approach towards peace. "I'm going to attempt to **** over a part of your personal life so you'll later on be dependent on me. Reward me for this behavior."
Assuming for the moment you are correct, why are you in such a hurry to retaliate while the investigation has not been completed?
There's no assumption on whether I'm correct. I'm correct. You're a talking point behind. The goal post has now been moved to, "So what? Everyone does it," rhetoric.
@China nonsense: You're a complete fool if you actually believe this. And they do much worse. They desperately try to manipulate the world economy. While the morons raving about what a great piece this is, they forget Putin did not put Trump and Hillary on the tickets. Our sh*tty political parties put them on the ticket. Quit blaming Russia for our country's ineptness. If our citizens are stupid enough to fall for fake news and allow a Trump/Clinton election, this is the leadership we deserve. The ultimate problem with this piece is its complete hypocrisy. Everything Freeman rabbled on about, we have done much much worse to dozens and dozens of other countries. You dont have to like Russia's means and motives, but dont pretend we dont deserve it.
The same reason people like him refuse to explain what damaging info was released from the email compromises. These same people also think its perfectly fine for politicans to run personal email servers from their homes but yet cry foul when they are hacked.
The goal post has not been moved. The likes of you are just ignoring the subject. Just like many of you before the election rambled on about how voter fraud was practically non existent, now that your candidate has lost, the russians are relentlessly trying to hack our voting machines. All America wants to talk about is RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA and the great injustice to Hillary Clinton instead of focusing on how we can preserve the integrity of our voting processes. Just a year ago, the left was crowing about how Trump would go on and on and on about how the evil media was working against him and the thousands of other excuses of why he lost and predicting mass amounts of violent protests and uprisings...while dear ol Hillary was above the deplorables and would never do such a thing. Not even a year later, Hillary has already wrote and published a book on the excuses of why she is a failure as a politician...ironically enough using every excuse the left thought Trump would use. Hillary is more deplorable than those who still support Trump to this day.
The subject is that Russia intentionally sought to undermine our democratic process and sow distrust of our government. Now that YOUR side won the election, you have taken the "big deal" position because it cast doubts. Well potential collusion and potential impeachment is a pretty juicy news topic, no? Cool story.
What investigation are you talking about? The GOP controlled Congress enacted modest sanctions against Russia and made it so Trump couldn't use executive power to neuter it this August; Trump had to sign that bill. We know for a fact that Russia made an effort to undermine faith in our processes and our government during the election and they were sanctioned by Congress and signed by Trump.
I never once mentioned Hillary. You can't seem to let it go though. It could be Jesus Christ that won the election and if there was tampering done in order for Jesus to win it conducted by a foreign country, I'd want to prevent future election tampering and I sure as hell wouldn't want to reward the country that did tampering. My posts have been focused on protecting the integrity of our voting process in this thread. Dagger asked what and why we should go after Russia. Dagger asked why even investigate? I explained to see what security loopholes there were and what can be done to prevent it in future elections. How is that not discussing the integrity of our voting process? He then said, we should wait until the investigation is over before discussing plans against Russia even though it's already established from both the GOP and Democrats that Russia did interfere with our election process. Thus why I said the goalpost has been moved from, "So what? Everyone does it," rhetoric. You're like a year behind in talking points still clinging to dear Hillary. Someday you'll stop beating that horse and the BBS will be better off for it.
First, all the people trying to act like what Russia has been doing isn't a big deal or that are comparing Russia to other nations in an attempt to down play Russian involvement; are misguided at a minimum or are dangerously putting party over the basic well being of America and Europe. Honestly, it is sickening and not something that is forgivable in my opinion. Second, the United States and our allies need to take a strong stance against Russia. The United States already has sanctions against the Russians; they need to be increased. The access of Russian nationals to US businesses and government influence needs to be strongly limited. Those with questionable ties to Russia need to be investigated and if wrong doing is found, they need to be prosecuted as enemies of the USA. If Manafort or Flynn or any other person is found to have attempted to influence US government duties; they need to be tried for treason. This is all a continuation of the Cold War. Russia is led by a dictator that is a former head of the KGB. He and Russia are not friends to democracy or the USA or Western Europe. If Manafort indeed did collide with Russian officials to influence Trump or the election; he needs to be tried for treason and face the death penalty. There are some crimes that are unforgivable and so serious that idealogical differences should be irrelevant. Country before party.
Wasserman Shultz is a POS scumbag that I would have no problem watching face criminal charges if prosecutors believe she did something illegal. Russia actively attempted to directly alter US election results with the purpose of undermining the credibility of US democracy and cause unrest. China is no friend of the USA, but as far as I know they have not done what Purim has done.
You can deny this all you want; If Hillary won the election, we would have moved on from this topic a long time ago. If you really gave a **** about the integrity of our voting process, you would be talking about: -How do we standardize the voting procedures across our whole country, including district, city, county and state. How do we set a standard for voting rights, including those who are not eligible (felons) and how do we prevent ineligible people from voting. As a country, how do we standardize registration, early voting and voting day to best accommodate everyone....instead of letting self interest political parties pervert the voting process. -How do we validate the voting process? We have absolutely no process to validate an individuals vote. In other words, I should be given a token/receipt that I could cross reference my actual vote. If every vote was validated, we would not have to worry about tampering. -How do we deal with lobbiest -How do we open up the field to allow competent candidates to run for office. We can collaborate and make a massive list of problems of our voting process. Instead, RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA is at the top of the list. The rest of the world is laughing because we feel like we are victimized of 'fake news' and hacked emails that only revealed corruption going on inside the DNC. Just be honest. You're pissed because Trump is president. And you're a fool to think Russia is the prime fault for the resulting of his election. Im pissed because of the dozen plus candidates of both parties, Bernie is the one who was COMPETENT AND ETHICAL...and I am being fairly generous with the term competent.
Do you deny we have done and continue to do much worse to other countries? If no, should the rest of the world be sanctioning us for doing the same to other countries? If no, why do you feel like we are above the rules that we expect of other countries? I am specifically talking about the alleged Russian ties: What damages did Russia cause to our election. Dont say "dur they hacked er emails". Specifically state what damages were done. Now tell me what level of retribution should be enforced for the damages done. Why are you excluding all other nations considered hostile by the US such as China, Iran and North Korea and only inclusive of Russia? Your bias reeks and you are absolutely wrong. They should be prosecuted to the fullest extend of our judicial system. We dont need to create a new 'terrorist' like term to remove rights from US citizens. There is no debate about this.
I'm not suggesting we are war per se. We do know at least some of what they did. I might be okay with sanctioning them for what we know happened, and perhaps increasing sanctions if we find out more. Just be clear. Mueller's investigation isn't into whether or not the Russians carried out multiple attacks in many different ways against the United States in an effort to undermine our democratic election. Our intel agencies already have the information on that. All Congress would have to do is spend a few hours gathering and looking at that information, and then draft the appropriate sanctions. The Trump administration could even help with that process.
I understand that China attempts to manipulate the world's economy in their favor. That is different than attempting to undermine our democratic elections. Russia attacking our democracy isn't about who was on the ticket. This isn't about who won or lost the election. It's about a foreign power trying to undermine our election, hack voter registration rolls, things of that nature in addition to their propaganda campaign. Please list the worse things that the United States has done in recent times regarding other nation's elections. Forgive me if I doubt your unsubstantiated claim that we have much worse to dozens and of other countries. I don't believe that is at all accurate. When did you fall into the battered woman syndrome where you believe we deserve to have the integrity of our elections undermined? I don't know what to say other than that kind of talk is pathetic.
All I'm reading is b****ing about what I'm apparently not thinking enough about and what you'd rather discuss in a topic with Russia in the title. While I read your b****ing, I see you offering no solutions to the issues you want to discuss. Just b****ing. So in order to discuss the topics you'd like us to instead, you can A) Start a new thread on lobbyists, competent candidates, voting process validation or B) post in the many existing threads discussing those topics. Or you can C) continue to b**** about discussing Russia in a thread topic with the title in it Russia. What did you expect? Seriously?
