They could have kept all those homegrown players if Drayton wanted to... some of them weren't even let go, they were traded for other MLB players that were thought to have more upside or fit their needs at the time. The corpses of Swindell and Drabeck were long gone by the time Kile came up for free agency (really the first free agent of the core they "lost" due to being cheap). I could just as easily give you anecdotal examples of how adding FA's like Clemens/Pettite/Kent help boost possible playoff teams into pennant winners.... doesn't make it the best strategy. In the end, no team is going to win it all with just homegrown players. You need a perfect mix of established core homegrown studs supplemented with additional pieces (not necessarily stars) that provide either veteran leadership or fill noticeable voids (for this year, voids were offense from the catcher position and getting better contact/OBP guys). If they don't supplement the Altuve/Correa/Springer core as much as they possibly can, this window may end up a helluva lot shorter than people expect.... or may end up exactly like the 90's Astros (who really only had two years where they were far/away expected to compete for a WS).
The Astros trade for Britton was vetoed by the Orioles owner. Also keep in mind that the Dodgers and Cubs both moved away from Britton because they believed that Angelos could very well pull the rug out from under them. The Astros offer for Britton was nothing spectacular, and there is no guarantee that the Astros would have out bid the Cubs and Dodgers under normal circumstances. Crane can whine about the deal falling apart at the last minute, but it was buyer beware when dealing with Angelos. The Astros took a risk and it didn't work out for them but it shouldn't be shocking that it didn't. As far as the deal for Osuna (I assume this is the deal that Rosenthal is referring to as the Astros were discussing him in the days leading up to the trade deadline), I keep hearing about how the deal was there to be had. Well, if that were truly the case, the Astros could have completed the deal and they didn't. Why would the Astros and the Blue Jays have discussions without having some idea of what the ownership group would feel about the trade? It doesn't make sense. It reeks of someone over reaching in an The Astros did not make a strong offer for Darvish either. I do not know what offer was made for Gray but I know they moved away from him some in the week before the deadline. It sure seems like they were focused on Britton and that is consistent with what I have heard. As for the Astros window, they should still be a good team in 2-3 years but I don't know that they will have a team as good as this one and the one over the next few years. The cost of arbitration is likely to increase, as more time goes by injury risks increase, and a lot of it is going to come down to prospects like Martes, Perez, Tucker and others. If they perform well the window will increase.
This ignores that the Finley/ Caminiti trade to SD was motivated by budget constraints directly brought on by the drabek swindell signings. The story (as I believe reported by Maury Chass? at the time) was that at the time of the free agent signings, drayton didn't understand how the arbitration process worked and didn't know that the young core would be entitled to raises as they moved through their club controlled years. As a result, he didn't budget for the rising costs of keeping his club together and that lead to the SD deal.
He factually did not put all his eggs in the Zach Britton basket as he made an additional trade (Liriano) and reportedly had a third deal on the table that was vetoed. Bregman is almost exactly where Carlos Correa was at this point in his career. So we could have a fairly substantive discussion, re: three years of Sale v. six years of (a much cheaper) Bregman. (And Sale was not the only target; he's been offered for Archer, Quintana....) Which they're trying to extend by not being win-it-all knee-jerks. You have no idea what the prospect cost would have been for the Astros. (And they were never interested in JD Martinez; that's just revisionist b****ing.)
Even if that theory is remotely true.... lets just presume that this regime isn't going to make such an asinine mistake like "not understanding the arbitration process".... and they're slightly better at this whole thing than they were 25 years ago. And even if the Drayton Astros had the budget... they weren't likely going to be able to pay ALL of those guys, regardless of Drabek/Swindell contracts.
I guess my problem is, at my age, I don't know how many more years I'll be here to see my favorite team win one....so yea, this year would be pretty cool And has been mentioned many times before, there were quite a few relievers moved who could have helped us, and not touched our top7-8 prospects Whatever the reasons, Luhnow didn't get that done while others we are competing with did Some of us are pissed
Yeah... that Liriano trade was a real needle mover. Don't play daft. When it came to making an impact deal, the Astros sat and waited on Baltimore while other contenders (Cubs and Dodgers) moved on and made other deals. As far as Osuna.... yeah, I am buying that the GM of the Blue Jays was close to dealing away a player to the Astros without having discussed it with ownership before hand. That seems really believable. Either way it was a miscalculation on the part of the front office. The Astros had a bad deadline, deal with it and move on. Nice try but Alex Bregman is 6 months OLDER than Carlos Correa right now. If you think they are comparable players, knock yourself out with that one.... I am sure you might find someone to agree with you. Most of the rumors were Bregman to the White Sox in a deal for Sale. If you believe that 6 years of Bregman is better than 3 years of a top 3-4 pitcher in baseball, I respect your opinion but to call people that have the opposite opinion "idiots" is, well stupid. I have never been an advocate for gutting the farm system. The reality is that the players dealt on the day of the deadline went for far less than expected. The Astros would have had no difficulty protecting their top prospects and still made moves to improve the now and the near future. They didn't and that is fine, as I said before maybe this particular group of prospects is special. No one said the Astros pursued JD Martinez so keep throwing up straw men. The point was JD Martinez was traded for very little and likely would have helped the current Astros team with costing very little long term. Again, you don't even know what you are so angry about.
Theory? If you don't believe me, listen to drayton tell you himself: http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spo...-went-on-roller-coaster-ride-that-5679157.php Drabek and Swindell's contracts represented over 25% of the club's yearly payroll. (Close to the percentage verlander would currently take up by himself). That 9-10 million per year was literally the difference in being able to keep Caminiti and Finley.
"And that's not the way a baseball team is run"... It was a poorly run franchise back then. Again, lets presume that mistakes or issues that plagued this franchise 25 years ago aren't allofasudden going to repeat themselves. Yes, there will always be a budget, but they're also not going to run it like a grocery store and dump talented/pre-arbitration players... even if they end up signing free agents along the way. They're also unlikely to win it all with just homegrown players... and saying the 90's Astros jettisoned players would have gone on to the same sort of success here is just hindsight/revisionist BS. Its also safe to say that Drayton was not going to re-sign ALL those players no matter who else was on the payroll.
I'm worried about this year's starting pitching almost as much as for next year. Position players don't worry me much such that Astros should be able to focus their resources on pitching in the future. Though no matter how well things go, people will be upset as Luhnow will likely never trade as many prospects as most fans want traded.
Again, this is factually inaccurate. You can try and wiggle out of it by dismissing the Liriano deal - but it was clearly a part of a much larger whole. They were working on deals for Liriano, Britton, Hand and a mystery reliever. You pretend to know a lot more than you actually do... To be clear, I'm not the one still b****ing about it 10 days later. I moved on around... 3:01 pm July 31. Frankly, I don't live or die at the trade deadline. I thought they needed to make a deal; understood (and was cool with) why they likely didn't. Any one who can competently count to 10 would agree with me: his numbers, through the first ~500 ML PAs, are nearly down-the-line identical. Age has nothing to do it with. The point is... dealing Alex Bregman *right now* looks decidedly different than it did even two months ago - even in the context of dealing for Sale. Would you disagree? Sure; most of us would (probably) do Bregman-for-Sale in December. But now?..... You mentioning him as a one-that-got-away candidate is pure revisionist bullshit; it's cheap and you know it. And I'm not angry. You can't extrapolate what the Yankees or Dodgers paid and assume the Astros were offered the same level of deal. Not only is there an incentive for the Rangers or A's to extract more from a divisional opponent (in order to weaken them), there may have also been hesitation on the part of the Astros to restock two bad teams in their division. I would wager the prospects the Astros were willing to trade to, say, San Diego were much better than the prospects they were willing to deal to Oakland (and, likely, especially) Texas. So, again, we're here: you have no idea what any team asked from the Astros.
Agreed... I was worried about this year's pitching BEFORE this year... and despite an all-star first half from LMJ and DK, and the best record in the AL, unfortunately I am still finding reasons to be worried about it, and unfortunately there are no immediate solutions on the horizon. Colin McHugh is currently at 5-1 odds to be this team's game 1 starter, and most consistent starting pitcher for the rest of the season.
I understand/respect the perspective (I'm not so young, myself) so I'm not dick-ishly rejecting it - but the Astros don't care at all about any of our long-suffering agendas. Their goal is to build a sustainable winner. Again, you don't know what teams were asking; Luhnow said some wanted players on the current MLB roster - so Bregman, Martes, Fisher?.... Those are definitely top 7-8 guys.
If you think the Liriano deal was the key part of the Astros trade deadline moves, we have nothing to discuss. Okie dookie. Yet you are b****ing, calling other people idiots and apparently lack the ability to really comprehend basic concepts or to listen. LMFAO You are actually going to double down on this? You were one of the fools that claimed Osweiler was a rookie last year as well if I remember correctly. Carlos Correa is 6 months younger than Alex Bregman is right now. Comparing their first 500 at bats is foolish when you are talking about a 20 year old player. You keep fighting that fight that Bregman = Correa.
I don't understand how anyone can say Luhnow choked. First of all, no one knows what deals were on the table. Second of all, its August 9th and there are still 22 days left to make acquisitions. Third of all, the final "grade" on Luhnow's trade deadline performance can't be effectively judged until November 1st. If the Astros win it all despite his "trade deadline choke job" I hope not to see all the people b****ing and moaning now, at the ticker tape parade in November.
Until Astros develop another ace and a decent No.2 that doesn't have health issues, I am guessing I will be worried about SP as well. Position players will get Astros to favorable spots at the deadline most years in the near future. I expect some years Luhnow will actually make a trade for a TOR SP (though I'm guessing these years Astros won't be as good and the TOR starter means more short term) and other years The Beard will carry a pitch fork.
Not my fight, but from the outside looking in you are the one attempting to be demeaning and pulling random things out of nowhere that have nothing to do with the argument, 1. What does osweiler have to do with anything? Is it just an attempt to discredit anything he says? This is a baseball thread and he is making good points about baseball...not football. 2. Why can't Bregman be compared to Correa? Correa was the number 1 pick overall and Bregman number 2. They both reached uber top prospect in the industry status. They both fast tracked (Bregman actually faster bc he came from college). Now they both look like they are studs. What is your point with their age? Correa and Lindor are compared all the time and Bregman is actually YOUNGER than lindor.
