Robert Horry has nothing to do with this conversation. Robert horry is only brought up in these discussions by Lebron fans who try to make a point that titles mean nothing. Which is stupid because we are talking about all time Greats.
Name Name a top 20 player ( regardless of what order you have them )of all time who never competed for a title ? Once you find the answer is Zero , explain your dumb ass argument.
Horry has plenty to do with this convo, same as any other player that has a ton of rings but wasn't the primary player for most of them. Sub Havlicek for Horry and the question is the same, and he actually led teams to two titles just like Kobe. Sub Pippen and the question is the same. If you are ring counting then 8 > 6 > 5. If you suddenly want to bring role into play then stay consistent. Kobe has "only" been what you are noting twice, not five times. LeBron has led teams to more titles than Kobe. Kobe has more rings than him due to being on great teams that he didn't lead, similar to Horry, Pippen, Havlicek, etc.
Jerry West is a top 20 player, the freaking NBA logo and he never led a team to a title. And he has like a 1-9 Finals record because Boston always had a better team. Next....
That's not an intelligent answer to what I asked so I'll give you another chance at it. Even it that happened to be true, it wouldn't prove a causal link. There are plenty of all time great players who were never on championship winning teams....you know because their individual success doesn't guarantee team success. Anyway, here's the question again so you can take another shot at doing a better job of answering the questions I gave you. The conversation really can't move forward without you at least making an effort to answering them. LOL so in your mind, the all time best player ever would have success being on a team comprised entirely of random CF posters? You seriously think that if they failed to have success in that scenario then it means they weren't good?
I only read half of the first sentence and with that alone I completely understand you have no idea what you're talking about.
Do you even read what you type . What is intelligent about bringing CF posters into actual basketball scenarios to make a point about all time greats and they're success.
Yes, I read what I type, now answer the question and I'll spell out to you the reason I asked you the question if you aren't bright enough to figure it out on your own. Here it is one more time, better luck this time in answering it.....you really do have to at least try to answer it for this conversation to move forward. LOL so in your mind, the all time best player ever would have success being on a team comprised entirely of random CF posters? You seriously think that if they failed to have success in that scenario then it means they weren't good? Also, you're killing me showing that you don't know the difference between "they're" and "their" over and over again.
You lost the argument already due to the fact that you have to use hypothetical situations to make a point. Take the L
The fact that you refuse to answer the questions is essentially you admitting that you were laughably wrong. I gave you ample opportunity to do so, and you continue to dodge the questions. As such, it's been fun, but if you aren't going to intelligently discuss this, ti's time to move on. Just because I'm so nice, I'll give you one more opportunity for you to answer the questions....but I don't expect you to take me up on it because you know you've lost. LOL so in your mind, the all time best player ever would have success being on a team comprised entirely of random CF posters? You seriously think that if they failed to have success in that scenario then it means they weren't good?
Yes if one the all time greats was on a team with nothing but CF posters ( that included myself) they should have success at the highest level , because I can play.
Thank you for finally answering. Your answer shows that you are incredibly delusional and suggests that I probably shouldn't bother spending any more time on this discussion because your connection to reality is tenuous at best.
And, again, I specifically said Lebron was the better player, period. The Rings argument is a different argument altogether. And, no, not even close, not arguably, not fathomable, not happening, is he the best player ever to play the game. Stop that..... That is just ludicrous.
I've always stood by the phrase "MJ is the goat because Nike told us he was" and they marketed the crap out of it.
Very interesting angle. I would go further as to say if Lebron had a better 3 pt and midrange shot and could shoot them in the clutch, he would be the clear GOAT. Nothing wrong with his shot, he is just average IMO. But for now MJ is slightly better in my opinion, Kobe is a tad not versatile enough. My 2 cents.
I actually thought @Bobbythegreat won that stand off against @HtownTrill pretty clearly lol. Bobby's thought experiment was coherent and a direct counter point to htown trills assertion that a players greatness should be identical with his team success. Thought experiments like that are meant to hold your opposition to the same line of thinking that they are displaying in their current position. Htown Trill dodged it and couldn't commit to his own logic. Htown trill lost when he dodged that question like 10 times in a row and then made a joke answer in response. He just resorted to saying things like "take your l" "you're a dumbass" "screw hypotheticals" or "I could play" I personally believe Lebron is by far the better player than Kobe but I can respect the other view if a good argument is made. Htown trill just kinda bished out of the argument completely and started responding with generalizations and efforts to disqualify bobby instead of offering any sort of coherent rebuttal lol
What's clear is that when you resort to using hypothetical situations to make your case you have lost. I shouldn't have answered that dumb ass question.
The reason you don't like the question is that it completely shatters your position and you know it. Do yourself a favor and use this new information that team success is in no way relevant to individual greatness to come up with a more solid position and try your luck next time. All you are doing is digging your hole deeper by trying to pretend that your position wasn't thoroughly trounced.
