If those were my only two options, I'd take Gray in a heartbeat. He's a little younger, a little cheaper, and a better player in terms of actual results. He's had multiple seasons better than Archer's best. The only negative is that he's signed for 2 fewer years, but by trading for him earlier, you get one of those back, and it's in a guaranteed playoff year.
Wrong. There is zero chance Reid Ryan and, especially the marketing guys are making demands of Jeff Luhnow. That's not how they operate.
I respectfully disagree here, I feel that the A's received considerable value from the Yankees. Just looking at lists (I'm not saying that is what you are saying seal, but I've read several other comments that go straight to the industry-wide top 100 lists, which provide very little insight as to how front offices feel about specific players). But to who the Yankees gave up specifically: James Kap was showing frontline stuff and production before he went down. Obviously TJS is never good for a starting pitcher, but the dude is a top tier pitching prospect when fully healthy. He is in the same Martes/Whitley category for me, but with the important caveat of the added injury risk. Fowler was very good, and was destroying the ball in the minors this year. Think Derek Fisher tier, perhaps with a slightly higher ceiling, but now with a much higher injury risk, as he had a heart-breaking, painfully looking knee injury mere minutes before he would have had his first major league at bat. Lastly, although Jorge Mateo's shine has faded over the last year, he's still uber-talented. Really high risk, but some high reward as well. Can't think of a good comp from the Astros farm system. Obviously he isn't near the talent that Daz Cameron is (hahaha sorry, I just had to). So based on what they had on the table from the Yankees, they could have demanded Whitley, Fisher, and another lower level lottery ticket. I don't think I pull the trigger on that. I can see both sides of the valuation argument, and I wouldn't have blamed the front office for doing that trade. I also don't blame them for saying no thank you. That's why I ended up jumping on the Britton bandwagon, I really wanted him. Even though we missed out on him, I think quality RPs like AJ Ramos, Addison Reed, and Brandon Kintzler (hell, even Doolittle or Madson) could've been nice opportunity buys for us. The market wasn't nearly as ridiculous for RPs as it was for SPs this trade deadline.
Yeah, closer than I would have thought. Still, take out the names and the larger point stands: if a better pitcher comes available in November, would you rather use your prospects on him, or settle for whatever was available at the deadline?
Or perhaps a better package, given they would have been dealing within the division. And people are quick to see these trades from only one side, and usually the most convenient - but consider this: I think the Astros are obviously VERY high on Whitley and they seem to really like Fisher, too. What's the risk/reward of stocking a team within your own division with two players you think can make a legitimate difference?... It shouldn't stop you from making the best deal for your team - but we can't just ignore the cost of arming your enemies - especially undermanned enemies that could use a jump-start.
Didn't mean to imply their cubbards are bare or that they are handcuffed forever. Just saying that we saved our best cannons where some others used some of theirs.
I get it . But at the same time if you can offer more than another team ... The team you are trading with knows this ... And so they make you overpay.
Question: assuming he passes through waivers and is willing to waive his no-trade, if Luhnow trades for Verlander this month (even if he overpays), does the negativity go away?
This year is very different than last year. Luhnow has gone on multiple local radio shows.... had a press conference... AND was on the broadcast trying to explain what happened. Jim Crane went on the air (has that ever happened before) trying to explain what happened. I'm not saying its a bad thing... I'm glad they were close enough to make a trade that they wanted the public to know that... its just also quite clear why it would be in their best interest for the public to know that.
My big complaints during the sucking years was that they didn't care about the fans... they were PR debacles all by themselves. Right now, seems more like pandering to try to ensure ticket sales remain intact... which is fine... they now do highly value the fans perception as well as their $$$. If they were consistent... they would have simply not tried to explain themselves or not gone out of their way to explain how close they were.
They couldn't, and didn't, nor did we choose to overpay. There will be a deal at some point where it is worth outbidding all our opponents to get the deal done. There just wasn't that kind of prize available at this deadline. So we did what was best IMO.
Just because I was curious, did some brief research to see what other top teams have added since that date: Dodgers Rich Hill Josh Fields Cody Bellinger Brandon Morrow Yu Darvish Tony Watson Tony Cingrani Yankees Clint Frazier Aaron Judge Jordan Montgomery Aroldis Chapman Sonny Gray Todd Frazier David Robertson Jaime Garcia Red Sox Andrew Benintendi Chris Sale Rafael Devers Drew Pomeranz (July 14, 2016, but I'll give it to them) Fernando Abad Eduardo Nunez Addison Reed Indians Andrew Miller Edwin Encarnacion Bradley Zimmer Nick Goody Austin Jackson Joe Smith Cubs Ian Happ Jose Quintana Alex Avila Justin Wilson Mike Montgomery Koji Uehara This list doesn't include big deals for players no longer on the team (Reddick to LAD, Chapman to CHC, etc.) and I compiled this pretty quick so I'm sure I left out a few names. I mean, we can give Luhnow a pat on the back for making moves to improve the team, but it's not like he's doing anything unusual over the last year. All of these GMs for good teams have made moves to make their teams better, and I'd argue each of these lists are more impressive than Luhnow's. The sad thing is that I know I'm coming across as a Luhnow hater. I'm not, and I think he's done a fantastic job with our team to this point. But this "TRUST IN LUHNOW, ANYONE WHO DISAGREES IS AN IDIOT" mindset that has overtaken a large, vocal portion of our fanbase is the height of homerism, IMHO.
I feel the opposite - I feel like they've always been open books since they got here. They openly said they were OK sucking because they had a long term plan. They openly talked about seeking to make big trades during the last few months. This week, they openly said they failed to make moves they wanted to make. They don't feel like a front office that tries to hide their intentions or things like that. They seem pretty blunt/honest to me.
Absolutely true that all the top teams have made moves over the last year. But impressive ones? I'd say looking at the results, Luhnow's have been the most impressive in actually improving their teams (along with the Dodgers). Red Sox, Cubs and Indians, for example, are playing worse this year than last. Yankees are only marginally better in top line results (much, much better in run differential). Astros and Dodgers are the only two that took monumental leaps forward as a result of their moves.
Being open... and trying to keep the paying fans interested... are not necessarily the same thing. I'm not saying they're being dishonest... or lying about how close they were. I'm saying they've been going out of their way to say how close they were to making a trade, something they haven't done previously (especially Crane).
Doing a straight compare of added guys means you're ignoring the holes that needed to be filled. i.e. We can't penalize Luhnow for not getting an upgrade at SS, 2B, utility man, or "lead" OF--because they're all the among the best at their position, or spectacular value, or both. I agree that other teams have also done a lot in that time. But saying others have done more doesn't really make sense as a comparison given that the Astros are better (at this point), as Major points out. If the Astros don't win the AL? That will be a discussion for sure. If guys are healthy and the Astros get crushed in the playoffs? If guys aren't healthy in a predictable way (meaning Keuchel's neck goes down or whatever), also an issue.
Who cares, we wait for Archer, have the best record in baseball despite a closer that can't finish games (an example for my point) and there is no trust or belief that the GM will go get one at the deadline to help that year either.. Lets just keep bringing up prospects til we win the WS with them somehow.
It wasn't meant to be a comparison; I listed it to combat the prevailing narrative that, "He was not going all out to win." I would say the past 12 months tell a different story, and not doing something on July 31 doesn't invalidate all the moves he's made that have definitively made this team better.
