Trump Voters: time to admit that you've been duped

We need someone who can come in and fix things. Someone who has shown a consistent pattern of success. We need someone to come in and drain the swamp. A man not afraid to defend the working man. A man who knows how to get deals done, but isn't a Washington elitist. We need a guy willing to restore the superness of the USA.

Who could this man be?

Jesus... This is exactly how all those idiots were tricked.

 

Same here. Overturning the process that Trump gainfully won removes any responsibility voters owe to a democracy.

Why even bother voting or pretending other countries hate us fer our freedoms? We just throw **** away when it doesn't entertain us or meet our desires, and we throw tantrums when things don't go our way.

This isn't a partisan issue. The rot in our culture is reaching deeper and deeper.

 

Noted... and am I correct that you were/are a Trump supporter? But nevertheless, I agree that Trump's removal is a challenge to America's democracy. That said... America survived it during the Nixon presidency. I am confident that America will survive it if it happens during the Trump presidency as well.

But also keep in mind that there are questions about whether Trump won "gainfully". Furthermore, American deserves ethics and morals from our government and from our president. If it is proven out that Trump or members of his campaign, administration, and/or family did violate emoluments, collusion, or obstruction of justice, America's citizens rightfully expect that no one is above the law... including the president. This is not a tantrum, nor sour grapes about not "winning." America, our institutions are way more important than that.

 

I support Trump vanishing and for the Men In Black to shoot those amnesia rays for everyone to forget. I might be sarcastic from time to time (almost all the time nowadays) if only because most Trump minions don't reply that way, and if they do, they mostly reply out of anger or faux outrage.

And yes, he was gainfully elected through the EC until proven otherwise. The fact that he won a near majority in state votes and how margins went down the wire to tens of thousands or less worries me more in the talks of impeachment than the actual "legitimacy" which is more in the interests of the law. The court of opinion is much different and is highly polarized.

That means there's enough sentiment for "the other half" rounded up to vote what they mean and there's an even poorer indictment for those who didn't vote yet want to call for his ouster.

 

The sentiment of the thread author and the author's constituency is that Trump has "duped" people because Trump is not enacting Hillary Clinton's or someone else's policy.

Gotcha.

 

It will shake out institution, not destroy it. Our system was designed to be able to go through impeaching a president and removing him from power. It's not easy to do, so it happens, it was with cause. Certainly not a celebration, more of a relief. For now.

 

It's more about the public faith in government than the institutions itself.

 

I disagree. I think it's important for Trump voters and supporters to reflect. The main purpose of studying history is so that mistakes don't happen again. While Trump is a huge buffoon, spoiled child, and 100% capitalist opportunist, he's just a product of much deeper problems.

1. Good democracy got hit. Voters have a responsibility to do research and demand good resources for understanding their representatives. If you don't do this, democracy fails. How many Trump/Clinton supporters do you know that voted based on very superficial research. That's a big reason why a buffoon gets voted in the first place, both PotUS and at local levels.
2. Country should always be before party. In these last few months, I've heard too many Trump supporters say it's ok that Trump is ok with Russia/Saudi Arabia... what?! No matter how much you support your party... this is Russia and SA we're talking about. One country tries to undermine our very belief system and the other is the largest funder of state sponsored terrorism. Trump wheels and deals with them because he has assets and rich friends with interests in both countries. How can anyone support this BS. Country before party, always.
3. Erosion of American values. I remember going to a daycare with the most charming southern woman ever. From an early age, she said work hard, be a model for your kids, treat your neighbor with kindness and respect. Create a meritocracy where people get a fair chance to make it big. The stuff I see now from the hard right is all about hate, ridicule, a sense of entitlement, and ugh... winning. The world's tough and usually not fair - plus no one's perfect and god damn I know I'm no saint. But damn, can we at least try to have role models in office that aren't the worst of us?

So, I do think reflecting on history it is the right approach. The systemic problem isn't Trump - it's what has happened to American values and democracy. I know inside, there's a big part of me that thinks it's not worth the time, that Trump supporters are too ignorant. That zebras don't change their stripes and time is the only way things will change. But hopefully once in a while, one of us will see eye-to-eye and that makes it worthwhile.

 

That's easy for me. No Hillary. No Trump. Pences agenda does not personally bother me too much. Pences agenda is much more anti liberal than Trump, but leftists will feel it's a huge victory.

There is no point in going on about it. Because I find Hilarys agenda more threatening than Trumps (non-existent) agenda, some how I am a die hard Trump supporter. I am criticized because I feel the Democrats need to spend more of their energy finding and prepping a candidate worth a damn instead of feeding into Trumps intentional circus drama. The Republicans are not going to put forth a decent candidate. I certainly don't want a repeat of 2016 because we are all too busy focusing on the ignorance coming out of Trumps mouth.

 

The short answer... even suggesting we are somehow better off with the certifiably insane, soon to be proven criminal guy as POTUS is so completely wrong that it literally enables him to exist as president. The very fact that a POTUS communicates (via tweet, no less) that the White House is not in chaos is such a huge warning flag... and, after he fires yet another close member of his staff, he tweets "a great day in the White House"? Sorry... as much as you hate "liberals" and even Hillary (with cause), you can never imagine her needing to tell people her government is not in chaos.

And while Trump hasn't succeeded with a major legislative victory, he has "succeeded" in doing enough damage with extreme regulation killing, the start of his insane boondoggle wall, and continual embarrassment of the country and leadership here in the U.S. and abroad to make it necessary for the next POTUS to need to restore respect and trust.

There are many things I disagree with Pence about... but I am pretty sure insane and criminal aren't two of them. And if he somehow becomes POTUS should Trump be removed from office? Pence will not be able to impose any of the more extreme ideas he has. Unless you can name one of Gerald Ford's big legislative successes as president following Nixon. Instead, like Ford, Pence will do everything he can to distance himself from the American tragedy and political failure known as Trump. Because Pence will carry splatter marks from his time as the "loyal partner" of Trump.

 

But don't you understand, the horribly cut together youtube video of a Hillary interview on Iran 100% proved that she'd have started World War III by now, with all of us being already reduced to ashes.

Has Trump killed us all? NO, SO SHUT UP THAT'S A SUCCESSFUL PRESIDENT YOU SNOWFLAKE!!11!!!elf!!

 

To get back to the original question, I actually object to the basic premise.

Most of you probably live in Texas so you're exposed to the voting behavior there which is very binary. People in the South have historically picked a team and stuck to it. So a lot of "Trump voters" were Republican voters regardless. The South has had binary voting habits since Reconstruction ended. It just so happens that the Republicans have more people on their team at the moment.

Now I live in the Midwest and interact with true Trump swing voters on a regular basis. And the bottom line for most of them was the economy. Northeastern Minnesota was historically the most Democratic area of the state. In the 1984 Reagan landslide, Reagan actually won the Twin Cities but lost Minnesota because the Northeastern part of the state voted overwhelmingly for Mondale. Obama won the 8th district of Minnesota both times but Trump won it this time by around 15 points.

The big reason was that those communities are struggling. The traditional industries (mining, timber, shipping, etc..) are struggling and small towns are shrinking as people leave. Only one candidate in the last election spoke to these people. Trump for all his faults really spoke to the need to do something to help these communities. You can argue that he's full of it and I agree but the economy for these communities is all that matters. Russia, the endless idiocy in the White House, even health care doesn't matter. The ACA has had positive approval ratings in Minnesota while Obama was still in office. That hasn't been a major wedge issue here since the ACA passed. This is about jobs and the economy and nothing else. And while Trump hasn't done a damn thing yet, he also hasn't failed yet either.

So to say these voters are "duped" isn't a fair statement. Those voters voted for Trump because they voted for the candidate that gave them some hope. Now if he fails to do anything or if the economy suffers, they'll eventually bail on him.

 

Overturning isn't easy and is painful. Sometime, you don't know what you get, until you got it.

If enough is enough and overturning is a choice, to not overturn is to stab yourself again in order to punish all others? I've seen this before... in the 2016 election.

 

They swing to one side hoping for something and didn't get it - so they felt dup'd. It's a basic premise and it probably happen quite often. "Swing" voters swing probably every 4, 8 years.

There is also others that voted because they do want the conservative agenda. They made the choice to sleep with the devil (Trump horrible behaviors) and I don't think they are dup'd - Trump is pushing the Conservative agendas, so far.

 

"It is really really really really really really really easy"

 

Might as well put it here...

https://agadjanianpolitics.wordpres...ong-educational-lines-and-where-2016-fits-in/

 

A. The Democrats have good candidates most people I know are excited about but biggest names at the moment don't get eye rolls from the right cause of their age. However it's not who most Democrats want to see run. There are plenty of up and comers though along with the quality veterans we all know. It's just when you only watch right wing Tv, you'd think Hillary Clinton is the only Democrat in the party.

B. Your premise on Trump doesn't take into account the sheer danger of having someone who is mentally unstable making decisions about war and our economy. He's also shown that he's loyal to one thing and one person... Donald Trump. While his lack of agenda might be your preference your neglect of the person is concerning. The fact is that agenda or not, America cannot trust him to make decisions on our behalf. Nobody should be able to say otherwise at this point.

 

I dont agree. The swing from voting from Obama twice to Trump isn't something you do casually. And the swings were gigantic. We had Congressional districts move up to 20 points in one direction. That's not a regular thing.

You suggest that they want a Conservative agenda but at least here that wasn't true. Trump won 3 districts here that elected Democratic Congressmen and he won those districts with huge margins. He had relatively poor coattails for a winning presidential candidate.

Also note, that Northeastern Minnesota had NEVER voted for a Republican candidate. Both Bushes and Reagan couldn't crack the northeast. This was a pretty crazy moment. This is like Republicans winning Southern states for the first time. And Trump expanded margins in other rural areas here. And if you look at other midwestern states you see the same thing. There were multiple districts that kept Democratic Congressman but voted for Trump. That's not an agenda driven vote. That's a vote specifically for a presidential candidate.

 

I separated the two. Swing vs conservative.

So, they voted for Obama twice and then for Trump on ground of their pocket interest. What have Trump done for them? Dup'd so far. 4/8 years ago they voted for Obama and what did they get - probably the same - they felt dup'd. Dup'd isn't abnormal in politic among "swing" voters and is probably a common things given how everyone hate politicians and would vote in the other side or another promising set of how the new outsider will be different and yet it's the same ole same. This doesn't apply as much to those that are stuck to a party.

There is also a 3rd group that voted not because of their pocket interest. That could explain some of this and that would be a bigger shift and would be a bigger concern for Dem.

 

I agree with all your bullets, but people won't learn from their mistakes when a political enemy is lording it over them. They need an out. Give them a clean slate and they'll have time later to look back at the Trump era and grow a little. Insisting they admit they've been duped only heightens the polarization.

That sounds to me like an explanation of how Midwest voters got duped.